The Prayer Challenge

[chrispalasz]

If you're a seeker of God and you know you're not good and that you can never stop doing wrong - Jesus Christ can help you! If you want to know Him and Trust Him, He is willing! He accepts the broken into His arms. His Grace is FREE and He asks NOTHING in return for it!

Pray to Him, right now. Close your eyes and humble yourself before Him. Cry out to Him:

"Lord Jesus, you are the salvation of my life. You are Creator of the Universe. Touch me with your Grace, Lord, the Grace of your Salvation. Father in Heaven, I accept the sacrifice of Jesus' death on the cross for my sins against you. Thank you so much for being patient with me and showing me your mercy. I desire to follow you and reflect your goodness and love. Touch me with your healing hand and fill me with the Holy Spirit. Thank you, God, for sending your son Jesus to the cross for us, your children. Guide me through this life and leave not one of your children behind. Let your Will be done. Father, I pray in the name of your Son Jesus Christ. Amen."

Many people who are not Christians want proof that God exists, and they want it from every Christian they talk to.

Christians cannot provide proof that God exists. God can. We can provide reasoning, but ultimately you need to seek God. All you have to do, if you truly seek God, is to pray to Him. Repent for your sins and cry out to Him. Use the prayer above, or a similar one. If you truly seek God, He is faithful and He will answer you!

Non-Christians: If you decide not to take this prayer challenge, why not? Why do you come here to discuss religion? What do you hope to gain from this discussion forum? Are you trying to convince people that God does not exist?

Christians: Do you believe that through logical reasoning or debate that you can convince a non-Christian that God exists as Jesus Christ?

[Corvus]

Non-Christians: If you decide not to take this prayer challenge, why not?

Well, it's nothing personal, it's just that God has nothing I really want, except eternal life and happiness, and I don't believe God would approve of that particular motive for belief.

Why do you come here to discuss religion? What do you hope to gain from this discussion forum?

This forum encompasses the sort of subjects that I like to find in novels. A good helping of philosophy, sociology, psychology. Nowhere else would I find all these subjects together in such nicely proportioned amounts.

Are you trying to convince people that God does not exist?

Am I? By their fruits, ye shall know them. What do my fruits say to you?

[chrispalasz]

I wrote: Our prayers are not always answered.

Juliod responded: How do you square that with:
"If you truly seek God, He is faithful and He will answer you!"
You seem to want to have it both ways.

I do want to have it both ways. The answer is that Our prayers are not answered when they are not righteous or when God knows that what we request isn't what is best. This is why we pray for His Will to be done. This is why Jesus said in Matthew 26:39 And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will."

God does not promise us that all of our prayers will be answered. He does promise us that those who seek will find. What would we have?

Juliod: I have seven coins and a few other objects on my computer keyboard. Can you get god to identify them for you? I will join your religion immediately if you can.

Tomorrow at noon I will flip a coin. Can you pray to god to make me flip 10 "heads" in a row? I will join your religion immediately if you can.

DanZ

I did NOT say that God will grant our every whim and every desire. There is nothing to promise that such a request of mine will be carried out if I ask Him to oblige your requests. In fact, they would qualify as putting God to the Test. That is a sin. It was one of the temptations that Satan used against Christ. He did not fall for it then and He will not fall for it again.

Let's stick with the promises. God promises the Holy Spirit as a first installment to those who trust in Jesus Christ as their Savior and those who ask Him for forgiveness. If you seek Jesus, it is a blessing that He will definately respond to you.

If you want to take the Prayer Challenge, I will also pray on your behalf. You may just have an experience like no other.

[juliod]

The answer is that Our prayers are not answered when they are not righteous or when God knows that what we request isn't what is best.

Your challenge is getting more complicated. First you said he will answer. Now you say he will answer, or he will decide our request is not righteous, or he will not answer if what we want is not "best".

In fact, they would qualify as putting God to the Test. That is a sin. It was one of the temptations that Satan used against Christ. He did not fall for it then and He will not fall for it again.

Does it bother you, even slightly, that this is the same dodge used by TV psychics, astrologers, and dowsers?

If you seek Jesus, it is a blessing that He will definately respond to you.

No, he didn't. Past tense. Did that, didn't work.

Aside from accusing me of being insincere, can you say why it didn't work? Perhaps you could ask god, and maybe he could tell you what to tell me that might make a difference.

DanZ

[bernee51]

I'm not sure how it could be considered against the rules. Almost any argument either for or against Christianity could be considered proselytizing for or against it then. Besides, it is clearly directly relevant to the thread question.

I suppose that is fair enuf. I guess is see a difference between debating bliefs and encouraging beliefs. I for one don't give a rat's whether you or anyone else chooses to believe. You, OTOH, would be over the mooon if the whole world fell in behind you and your god.

There lies the difference.

Why do you assume that your 'test' has not been taken by non believers?

Allow me to attempt to answer... if I prayed as you suggest the holy spirit would fill me and i would 'know' god'. Obviously I, and others, cannot possibly have done as you suggest.

Ah the arrogance of the True Christian (TM)

Correct. 8)

So what do you make of those who have done as you have asked and do not believe.

Why do you think that is? Why do you think they who have knelt and prayed as you suggest not been filled with the holy spirit?

To meet like minded folk who are aware of the dangers of fundamentalism and, hopefully, show this to others.

We are not so different. I might have typed the same thing... only replacing "dangers" with treasures.

Ah the 'treasures' of fundamentalism...treasures which drive people into flying planes into buildings. The treasures of the Taliban.

Religious fundamentalism is perhaps the greatest man made threat the modern world faces.

One cannot 'show' that god does not exist - the fact is self evident to those who truly enquire.

You see? Perhaps we are like-minded. I might say the same thing, only deleting the word "not" from the first part.

I'm sure GL we are much more alike that we are different. I'm sure we have many aims and ideas in common. I do not see us as being polar opposites. i would suggest in fact that we are 99% alike.

Sort of like homo sapiens and its closest genetic relatives who are more than 99% the same.

[potwalloper.]

juliod wrote

Tomorrow at noon I will flip a coin. Can you pray to god to make me flip 10 "heads" in a row? I will join your religion immediately if you can.

Before believing God on this basis you need to familiarise yourself with the law of large numbers http://www.stat.berkeley.edu/~stark/Java/lln.htm

I once tossed a coin 27 times and every time it came down as heads - pretty amazing eh? But if I then went on to toss the coin 1,000,000 times more the sequence of 27 heads would become meaningless when compared to the increased size of n

Many people who attribute supernatural causes to observed events ignore or are unaware of this law.

[potwalloper.]

Greenlight311 wrote

Pray to Him, right now. Close your eyes and humble yourself before Him. Cry out to Him:

Well apart from sounding like a complete pillock nothing happened I'm afraid.

I think that a better acid test for your religion would be to pop some LSD and then pray...some sort of result will be guaranteed (although in my experience the Invisible Pink Unicorn is more likely than some sort of God thing - although a flying elephant is not completely unknown).

Sorry - took the challenge and nothing happened.

You will now say that my heart was not in it - a trite response from Christians in my experience.

If you truly get some sort of personal feeling from praying in this way, but others don't, then the likely explanation is that it is to do with interactions in your brain rather than any external influence.

Now, do you have a proper objective measure (and does anyone out there need to buy an altar going cheap?)

Addendum
Just to show willing my mates and I have just tried this as a group challenge - there were five of us - three said the prayer and two instead sang along to Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin (as a control group).

The two who did the singing reported as having some feelings of unity with rock - the rest of us felt nothing except a kind of group silliness.

You can't say I haven't tried GL - some of us even cried out "hallelujah" and beat our breasts. I now have a bruise on my breast...but no unity with God.

It was a good laugh though

[Vianne]

Non-Christians: If you decide not to take this prayer challenge, why not? Why do you come here to discuss religion? What do you hope to gain from this discussion forum? Are you trying to convince people that God does not exist?

I chose not to take your prayer challenge for one reason: I did this seven years ago, was a strong Christian for four of them, and then through gut instinct and simple, practical education deduced that Christianity was deeply flawed. I choose not to get myself wrapped up in that lifestyle again because I find it destructive.

I come here to discuss religion because I find it interesting. It gives me a chance to hone my debating skills and stretch myself. It is also a way to vent energy in a positive direction.

I am not trying to convince people that God does not exist, because I do believe in God.

Vianne

[juliod]

Before believing God on this basis you need to familiarise yourself with the law of large numbers

Don't quote statistics at me, boy, or I'll slap your b**tch *ss up.

I am well aware of the probability of getting ten heads in a row. It was merely a rhetorical point. I could have said two heads in a row and it wouldn't have made any difference. The theists all know, deep down, that god can't influence the flip of a coin.

This is how we can differentiate between real forces (like gravity) and god. When I toss coins in the air gravity makes 100% of them land on the floor. None land on the ceiling. Gravity is much more powerful than god and I don't even have to pray.

DanZ

[otseng]

Before believing God on this basis you need to familiarise yourself with the law of large numbers

Don't quote statistics at me, boy, or I'll slap your b**tch *ss up.

I sense a little tension here... Please do not indirectly or directly attack one another. There is no need to tell others to familiarize with something without knowing if that person is actually ignorant of it. Also, there is no need to use edited profanity to make a point. Please exercise civility gentlemen. Thanks.

[potwalloper.]

Otseng wrote

There is no need to tell others to familiarize with something without knowing if that person is actually ignorant of it.

An interesting point...only unless you are able to grant us all the gift of omniscience it may be difficult to comply with.

We could of course all post on the forum everything that we don't know - that could take some time however...

I sense a little tension here... Please do not indirectly or directly attack one another.

Eh? No tension that I know of - and no offence taken from what was a quite funny comment...