Is it ever permissible to lie?

[Zzyzx]

One of the Ten Commandments states: “Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor”.

What does that mean, exactly? Without getting into the intricacies of possible translation or transcription errors, let’s consider the commandment as it is stated in English today.

Does it mean to never make a false statement? Or does it mean something different or more precise?

The words “bear false witness” mean telling something untrue, usually in an authoritative or official sense or environment. “Against thy neighbor” specifies against another person.

Saying the same thing in modern language: “Do not make a false sworn statement or civil charge against another person, particularly in court”.

Another way the statement might be interpreted is: “Do not speak falsely about another person to other people”.

What the commandment does NOT say is: “never make a false statement”.

1) How do you interpret the commandment and why do you think your interpretation is correct?

2) In your opinion is it ever permissible to make a false statement? If so, under what circumstances and within what limits is falsehood acceptable in your code of ethics?

I pose this question in the real world populated by real people. It is not intended to be abstract or deeply philosophical or profoundly theological – just real people talking to one another. (In other words, let’s get real here).

[twobitsmedia]

I believe we are entitled to withhold information that is not anyone elses business. The problem with the government is that they believe everything is their business and they are backing their "beliefs" up with legislation all the time designed to force us to give them information or designed so they can collect it without you knowing they have it (welcome to the information age).

Is withholding information (or failure to divulge) the same as lying?

I don't see them as exactly the same.

Does a religious moral code permit giving false information to the government if we consider the requested information to represent an infringement on our privacy?

I do not give the government any more information than they are required to know. Does a religious moral code permit it? Depends on the moral code in question.

Is lying to the government different than lying to a friend, a banker, a car salesman, a preacher, a spouse?

I think "lying" is "lying" regardless of to whom.

[ST88]

What the commandment does NOT say is: “never make a false statement”.

1) How do you interpret the commandment and why do you think your interpretation is correct?

Yeah, I think you're right about this. Young's Literal Translation says this:

Exodus 20:16
Thou dost not answer against thy neighbour a false testimony.

However, I think it goes a bit further than your court of law situation. I imagine that this specifically refers to slandering other people, telling stories about them to get them into trouble or the like. Reputation is a zero-sum game in many parts of the world. If you can make someone else look bad, many times you look good for pointing it out.

I don't think this covers a situation that is designed to make the other person feel better. It's always tricky being a non-theist at a funeral, for example. You nod your head when people say the deceased is in a better place. Telling what you think is the truth does no good in such a situation.

2) In your opinion is it ever permissible to make a false statement? If so, under what circumstances and within what limits is falsehood acceptable in your code of ethics?

Sure. I can tell you that shirt looks good on you.

I generally agree with this commandment. That is, when you try to make yourself look better by making someone else look worse (via a lie), you're doing something wrong. In Enlightened Self-Interest, you would have to recognize that your tendency to lie in this way can help to engender a culture of reputation-killers that will eventually get around to you, like you're the butterfly in the Canary Islands causing a chain reaction of hurricanes and cyclones that goes around the world and back around to your own habitat.

Lying is essentially theft. You are stealing the truth from someone. So you have to gauge the situation for how egregious that theft might be. (OK, I got that from The Kite Runner.)

Do you tell an old man on his deathbed that all his long-lost daughters are prostitutes? Do you tell a young child exactly how her mother killed herself? Current relationship theory suggests that telling your significant other of an infidelity indescretion is selfish because it makes them feel bad and it relieves you of your guilt about not telling. Such lies that stem from a decision not to tell would be noble in such situations.

[Osiris]

It depends on the situation. And I made a list of my own commandments.

[john_anthony_gonzalez]

One of the Ten Commandments states: “Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor”.

What does that mean, exactly? Without getting into the intricacies of possible translation or transcription errors, let’s consider the commandment as it is stated in English today.

Does it mean to never make a false statement? Or does it mean something different or more precise?

The words “bear false witness” mean telling something untrue, usually in an authoritative or official sense or environment. “Against thy neighbor” specifies against another person.

Saying the same thing in modern language: “Do not make a false sworn statement or civil charge against another person, particularly in court”.

Another way the statement might be interpreted is: “Do not speak falsely about another person to other people”.

What the commandment does NOT say is: “never make a false statement”.

1) How do you interpret the commandment and why do you think your interpretation is correct?

2) In your opinion is it ever permissible to make a false statement? If so, under what circumstances and within what limits is falsehood acceptable in your code of ethics?

I pose this question in the real world populated by real people. It is not intended to be abstract or deeply philosophical or profoundly theological – just real people talking to one another. (In other words, let’s get real here).

to answer your question 1#
i interpret it as it is written, to never make a false statement against a neighbor
and here is why:
First, this command protected the reputation of people from libel by others.
Second, this command established the ancient Israelite system of justice on a firm foundation. In ancient Israelite law, the judging of a persons guilt or innocence was based on testimony by faithful witnesses

To answer question 2
In my opinion it is permissible to make a false statement at times. To me i call them white lies. It's a lie out of love, the only time it's not acceptable is when sin is involved. for ex: i cheat on my gf, but i love her so much i cant tell her what i did and i justify because i lover her so much i cant hurt her. This is when white lies are out of bounds

[Flail]

I am of the opinion that many of the commandments warn us against the evils of religion in one form or another...bearing false witness against my neighbor would consist of making claims upon which there is no proof that my neighbor is doomed to damnation while I am a 'chosen person' due to the fact that I have adopted some membership in a concoted belief system....this is bearing false witness to my neighbor and taking the lords name in vain....lying is a sin....religion is evil

[Zzyzx]

.
Flail,

Thank you for reviving an interesting topic. A surprising number of people seem to think it is perfectly acceptable to lie as long as they think it is done with good intentions.

I disagree strongly. No person is capable of knowing the potential consequences of their lies -- for which they ARE responsible. "Lovingly" telling a colleague that her planned presentation is wonderful (when we think exactly the opposite) to keep from hurting her feelings may have consequences on her career. The same is true of telling a loved one that their attire does not look inappropriate (when it does).

If there are any negative repercussions, the liar is responsible -- and one cannot possibly know all potential negative outcomes.

One is NOT responsible for negative results that may follow from truth -- because one does not invent truth.

This is not to say that one is obligated to tell everything they know. A decision to remain silent is often a wise choice.

[OnceConvinced]

.
Flail,

Thank you for reviving an interesting topic. A surprising number of people seem to think it is perfectly acceptable to lie as long as they think it is done with good intentions.

I disagree strongly. No person is capable of knowing the potential consequences of their lies -- for which they ARE responsible. "Lovingly" telling a colleague that her planned presentation is wonderful (when we think exactly the opposite) to keep from hurting her feelings may have consequences on her career. The same is true of telling a loved one that their attire does not look inappropriate (when it does).

If there are any negative repercussions, the liar is responsible -- and one cannot possibly know all potential negative outcomes.

One is NOT responsible for negative results that may follow from truth -- because one does not invent truth.

This is not to say that one is obligated to tell everything they know. A decision to remain silent is often a wise choice.

But there are also times when telling the truth and remaining silent can also have repurcussions. I personally don't see how say... praising an 8 year old for doing a good drawing even though it's no better than what a toddler would do, would have any repurcussions.

The other thing is that truth is also subjective sometimes. What you think may not be really good, may be considered by many others to be great. (One persons rubbish is another man's treasure), so isn't it better sometimes to err on the side of caution and tell a white lie, just in case you are wrong?

[Flail]

The biggest lie is telling people you are 'saved' or 'chosen' or 'preferred by God' or other such self righteous dogma or nonsense....being righteous for selfish reasons is evil as Jesus taught...

save me
bless me
answer my prayers

me me me ....Chrisitanity

all other lies can be avoided by being authentic and impeccible in your word...two quotes come to mind.

"To thine own self be true and then as surely as night follows day, thou canst not be false to any man."
Shakespeare

"A closed mouth gathers no feet."

So if you don't have something true and honest to say...keep your mouth shut...and keep your Religious superstitions to yourself.