Sex-Straight-Gay (What does the Bible say... to you?)

[melikio]

This sums up many of my views on the Bible and human sexuality: http://www.religion-online.org/showarti ... title=1265

I'm a gay man. (No big deal to me personally, I accept that period; but because of American society and many related religious views/traditions, I realize that I must advocate for certain human rights and protections. I've reluctantly become more of a moral activist over time, than I would have originally preferred.) I've seen people justify their views (one way or the other); now I just want to see what people on this forum think of sex, as it relates to their overall biblical, social or moral perspective(s).

Since I was a young man, I've always wanted to know what various biblical experts had to say about human sexuality (especially factors related to homosexuality). And in light of many threads discussing biblical interpretations and traditions, I ask this debatable question:

What does the Bible say to YOU (spiritually/personally) regarding the gift of HUMAN SEXUALITY you've been granted or experienced?

[romat]

Lets face it the bible basically says (i reading it i don't see how it could mean much else) kill homosexuals.

I wouldn't worry too much though because this is coming from the same book that says the punishment for raping a virgin should be to pay the father fifty shekles (about 600 grams) of silver and then be forced to marry the victim without the prospect of divorce.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=31;

[Zzyzx]

I cannot answer the poll for lack of an acceptable option. "None of the above" would do, or "The bible is of no significance regarding sexuality".

[EdTheOvertgeek]

Likewise.

[EdTheOvertgeek]

Being the world's most popular compilation of bull faeces, it did not take me long to find lots of quotations of its prejudiced remarks. The following link offers many quotes.

http://www.cwfa.org/articles/5358/CFI/r ... /index.htm

To summarise, the bible says that gays are sinners, homosexual acts are abominations and they're all going to roast in hell for an eternity.

Personally, I regard it nothing but the unwarranted bigotry of some closed minded imbeciles, because it offers no justification except for that God created a man and a woman so that they could have sex with each other.

The problems with this are that God didn't create man at all; we evolved and that while if he did exist and did create them, he may have wanted Adam and Eve to be heterosexual so that they could produce children, he probably wouldn't care if some people were gay later on, because more children does not equal a better world, which is partly because humanity would still continue because some would produce offspring . At the moment, we're having problems with too fast population growth, so some more homosexuality might be useful.

It doesn't just condemn gays, though, but rather anyone who commits 'sodomy'.

It doesn't seem to condemn non-practising bisexuals and pansexuals, though.

What I don't understand is how even if God did want people to have straight sex, this would make having gay sex immoral. I would have thought that the absence of straight sex would be the sin, not the motives for the absence of straight sex e.g. homosexuality.

In conclusion, the bible draws conclusions from its own fallacies without even showing their relevance.

[EdTheOvertgeek]

I would vote 'The bible is nothing more than a vast compilation of lies intended to delude and frighten people into obedience and should be mocked, sneered upon with scorn and otherwise defamed, but the option isn't there.

[Flail]

The Bible is a compilation of stories that different people made up over the centuries...some are good...some are interesting...some are not....the danger is that someone declared these stories to be the Word of God....that is when the insanity started...when someone tells me "The Bible says...." shouldn't they instead quote someone in the bible...doesnt it matter who said it...when they said it..who they were...how they were motivated...what was their culture...their setting?

The Bible is not the truth...they made it up.

[s0ren]

Being the world's most popular compilation of bull faeces, it did not take me long to find lots of quotations of its prejudiced remarks. The following link offers many quotes.

http://www.cwfa.org/articles/5358/CFI/r ... /index.htm

To summarise, the bible says that gays are sinners, homosexual acts are abominations and they're all going to roast in hell for an eternity.

Personally, I regard it nothing but the unwarranted bigotry of some closed minded imbeciles, because it offers no justification except for that God created a man and a woman so that they could have sex with each other.

The problems with this are that God didn't create man at all; we evolved and that while if he did exist and did create them, he may have wanted Adam and Eve to be heterosexual so that they could produce children, he probably wouldn't care if some people were gay later on, because more children does not equal a better world, which is partly because humanity would still continue because some would produce offspring . At the moment, we're having problems with too fast population growth, so some more homosexuality might be useful.

It doesn't just condemn gays, though, but rather anyone who commits 'sodomy'.

It doesn't seem to condemn non-practising bisexuals and pansexuals, though.

What I don't understand is how even if God did want people to have straight sex, this would make having gay sex immoral. I would have thought that the absence of straight sex would be the sin, not the motives for the absence of straight sex e.g. homosexuality.

In conclusion, the bible draws conclusions from its own fallacies without even showing their relevance.

What you say is just as reductionistic as the parts of the Bible that you are referring to.

[Chaplinsky]

This sums up many of my views on the Bible and human sexuality: http://www.religion-online.org/showarti ... title=1265

I'm a gay man. (No big deal to me personally, I accept that period; but because of American society and many related religious views/traditions, I realize that I must advocate for certain human rights and protections. I've reluctantly become more of a moral activist over time, than I would have originally preferred.) I've seen people justify their views (one way or the other); now I just want to see what people on this forum think of sex, as it relates to their overall biblical, social or moral perspective(s).

Since I was a young man, I've always wanted to know what various biblical experts had to say about human sexuality (especially factors related to homosexuality). And in light of many threads discussing biblical interpretations and traditions, I ask this debatable question:

What does the Bible say to YOU (spiritually/personally) regarding the gift of HUMAN SEXUALITY you've been granted or experienced?

I believe the bible says being gay is a sin. And everyone should try to be sin free and strive for a relationship with Jesus. However, I do not feel that churches should discriminate against them. This is similar to the scenario when Jesus forgave a prostitute.

KJV John 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Matthew 7:1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

We (the church) should be nondiscriminatory. If a person is at church the work of God has already began to take place. If a person is not at church then we should not lead them away from church, but instead show them the doors and pray for them. We need to be there for them and trust in the Holy Spirit to work within them on their personal sins.
One thing I am sick of is (especially recently) self-proclaimed christians, protesting gays with demeaning signs and hate speech . This is definitely not the acts of a true christian and alters the public view of real christians.

[Salt Agent]

Lets face it the bible basically says (i reading it i don't see how it could mean much else) kill homosexuals.

I wouldn't worry too much though because this is coming from the same book that says the punishment for raping a virgin should be to pay the father fifty shekles (about 600 grams) of silver and then be forced to marry the victim without the prospect of divorce.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=31;

Greetings Melikio.

So you can see from this post, that hate and bigotry comes from all sides --the agnostic, and some who claim to be Christians -- but they missed the heart of what Christ actually taught. It is clear that Romat doesn't believe the Bible, and there are plenty of people who don't believe the Bible, but at least they are civil, decent, and respectful.

You notice that romat doesn't give a reference for the claim that homosexuals should be killed.... my point being that people often use the Bible when they don't even understand what it teaches, or based on what they heard it says.

Flail does make a very good point in post 7. When a person uses or quotes a verse, [often a single verse] it is very important to see who said it, who was the audience, and what is the larger context of the chapter or book. Was it poetry from Proverbs, or a passage from the Pastoral Epistles, which was instruction for churches. Was it a parable or apocalyptic literature from Revelation.

We can't make any assumptions about romat's formal training or lack thereof in Theology nor should one expect a person to have Theological training who doesn't even believe the Bible. The point is that romat failed to cite a reference that states where the Bible says homosexuals should be killed. He may have been alluding to the Levitical laws regarding sexual immorality, but he fails to mention that sex with two consenting heterosexuals outside of marriage had the same punishment.

He either knew this, and avoided mentioning it, or else just didn't know. For his case i would certainly give him the benefit of the doubt.

My point is that many who call themselves Christians are quick to damn homosexuals/ but often justify or excuse adultery or fornication.

According to Dr. Rick Dunn, author, pastor and former seminary professor, pastors and people in ministry were surveyed, from denominations across the board, and 40% admitted to having some sort of illicit sexual affair. [either homosexual or heterosexual] This is the ones who admitted it.

One of the reasons the church is so ineffective in reaching out and ministering to homosexuals is that they don't have the guts to address sexuality in general. They can't speak openly and honestly about sexual issues because the church has a skewed view or understanding of sexuality. Instead of seeing it as God's idea and a gift from him for a man and wife, they often still view it as dirty.

The classic example of this is the Catholic church. Peter himself was married, as were some other disciples and apostles, and the Catholic church didn't prohibit priests from marriage till the eleventh century, for political and financial reasons. They deny sexuality within marriage is a gift from God, suppress the natural outlet for sex, and then we have situations where bishops are molesting kids and decades of cover up and bribery and massive sexual abuse settlements.[Just for the record, it is not to imply that other protestant denominations are exempt.]

Another example of this is ask Christians which is worse, lying or masturbation. A shocking number will say masturbation, or they lie about it. Masturbation is not even addressed specifically in the Bible, but lying is listed twice in the list of seven abominations.

What if churches spent as much time teaching about the importance of total honesty in our business dealings and taxes, as they did about masturbation.

The Bible is very clear about sexual sin, including fornication, adultery, and homosexuality. Christ ate with prostitutes and tax collectors and believers should extend the love of Christ to homosexuals as well as those who are sexually immoral.

We should not treat a homosexual any worse or even any different than a prostitute. Both are sins, as is lying, and "fudging" on taxes, but we should treat the person the same. I can have a friend to our home who is not a believer and i extend the same friendship to the Muslim, the homosexual and the guy who is living with his girlfriend.

The following passages put things in perspective as well as context: Fornication is sex in any form outside marriage between a man and woman. Adultery and homosexuality are two special kinds of fornication.


Fornication—sex relations among the unmarried

Evil of:
Comes from evil heart Matt. 15:19
Sins against the body 1 Cor. 6:18
Excludes from God’s kingdom 1 Cor. 6:9
Disrupts Christian fellowship 1 Cor. 5:9–11
Spiritual fornication symbolized in final apostasy Rev. 17:1–5

Homosexuality

Forbidden Lev. 18:22
Considered an abomination 1 Kin. 14:24
Punishment Lev. 20:13
Unclean Rom. 1:24, 26, 27

Thomas Nelson, Inc., Nelson’s topical Bible index [computer file], electronic ed., Logos Library System, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997, c1995.

Most of the atheists and agnostics i have spoken with do not believe the Bible nor agree with my views, but they respect Christians who are authentic, respectful and practice what they preach. People do not need any theological training to spot a fraud.


Grace and Peace,