Violence in Childrearing

[McCulloch]

Do not hold back discipline from the child,
Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.
You shall strike him with the rod
And rescue his soul from Sheol.

Is there a place for physical violence as part of childrearing?

[Ncik666]

As I've said the vast majority of the children I know that are raised in the so called "perfect understanding" environment, end up (excuse my language) self-entitled pricks. If there is a reason given to the child and the child is able to understand and comprehend the punishment then physical discipline can be considered. I've said before it shouldn't be the only way to deal with children and it shouldn't be the first thing reached for when a problem arises. If the child should know better than to do something that has been warned about before then it might be time to consider using physical discipline. (What I'm talking bout here isn't punishment, coporal or otherwise, it's discipline. Given for a reason with full thought given to what the parent is doing and how it could effect the child.

We have no way of knowing what the effect will be on the child.
Like wife beaters, they may be learning from example as to how to behave. If they in tern use corporal punishment then you have taught to use muscle instead of brains to solve problems. Congratulations.

Regards
DL

good point on not knowing the effect. We have to consider every child's individual persona before we base the parent's actions as acceptable.

Which is pretty dam hard when its a 7 year old. Your "lollipop lane" world doesn't exist, sorry. Much as we all like to hope for peace, prosperity, end of world poverty etc. It's not happening. As a general rule I don't think that discipline is wrong. I know that it can get out of hand, and I know that it can cause problems, but I also know that every child I have ever met that was raised in the kind of environment that you talk about do not function well in the real world. They believe that the real world is the same as the one the parents are teaching and expect that everyone else is the same. The real world is a, by and large, ugly place. Get used to it and raise your children to understand that it doesn't always work out. Raise your children to understand there are real and severe consequences for breaking the rules. Show them the reasons why these rules are in place so they understand why the consequences are what they are. I don't think it should be a "stick" situation. But they do need to understand that they are there for people who break the rules. Understanding why the rules are in place is just as important as having something to use when the rules are broken.

[MikeH]

The point of discipline is to teach a child the relationship between actions and consequences, in hopes that the small consequences of your punishment will deter them from a large consequence later in life. This can be done with or without physical striking, but never with the actual hand and never in anger or without warning or just because the kid made a mistake. That's abuse. If you are in doubt, don't do it.

[Greatest I Am]

As I've said the vast majority of the children I know that are raised in the so called "perfect understanding" environment, end up (excuse my language) self-entitled pricks. If there is a reason given to the child and the child is able to understand and comprehend the punishment then physical discipline can be considered. I've said before it shouldn't be the only way to deal with children and it shouldn't be the first thing reached for when a problem arises. If the child should know better than to do something that has been warned about before then it might be time to consider using physical discipline. (What I'm talking bout here isn't punishment, coporal or otherwise, it's discipline. Given for a reason with full thought given to what the parent is doing and how it could effect the child.

We have no way of knowing what the effect will be on the child.
Like wife beaters, they may be learning from example as to how to behave. If they in tern use corporal punishment then you have taught to use muscle instead of brains to solve problems. Congratulations.

Regards
DL

good point on not knowing the effect. We have to consider every child's individual persona before we base the parent's actions as acceptable.

Which is pretty dam hard when its a 7 year old. Your "lollipop lane" world doesn't exist, sorry. Much as we all like to hope for peace, prosperity, end of world poverty etc. It's not happening. As a general rule I don't think that discipline is wrong. I know that it can get out of hand, and I know that it can cause problems, but I also know that every child I have ever met that was raised in the kind of environment that you talk about do not function well in the real world. They believe that the real world is the same as the one the parents are teaching and expect that everyone else is the same. The real world is a, by and large, ugly place. Get used to it and raise your children to understand that it doesn't always work out. Raise your children to understand there are real and severe consequences for breaking the rules. Show them the reasons why these rules are in place so they understand why the consequences are what they are. I don't think it should be a "stick" situation. But they do need to understand that they are there for people who break the rules. Understanding why the rules are in place is just as important as having something to use when the rules are broken.

You are saying that you cannot outsmart a 7 year old.
what will you use with a 17 year old, a bat. Or will he be kicking the hell out of you by then. Live by the sword and die by the sword.

Regards
DL

[Ncik666]

By 17 they should understand rules and not be needing discipline at all.

[Vladd44]

By 17 they should understand rules and not be needing discipline at all.

So you will let your kid beat you when your wrong?

[Greatest I Am]

By 17 they should understand rules and not be needing discipline at all.

You may be right. If he has been physically chastised in the formative years, he would likely understand what you taught and need a shrink.
Give your head a shake fool.
Love from you to your child is like love from God to us with Hell.
That is why there is no Hell.

Regards
DL

[disbelief]

My wife and I use spankings, timeouts, taking away toys, taking away privileges. I think that discipline is ok if it is done in moderation and not while you are angry. I think that if you truly love your child you would want that child to have a good mix of discipline with love and respect for you. I have seen kids talk to their parents in a way that I would have never even thought about in my head. This is no something that I myself am going to allow my kids to do to my wife and I.

I think too it is important after you spank your child and they have calmed down that you talk with them and explain why they received the punishment. I think this works well at least it has worked well with my kids. They at the tender ages of 7 and almost 5 know what is expected of them and for the most part follow the rules. There are slip up and we are not tyrants that demand a certain level of discipline at all times but I do think it helps if kids understand that there are boundaries and that when these are crossed that there are going to be consqeunces for their actions. Good or Bad which ever the case maybe.

[Ncik666]

thank you! I have been alone at this. Again moderation, moderation, moderation. I continually say this, but everyone keeps thinking I would beat the kids to within an inch of their lives. A spanking that is done with a calm cool head, and then the discipline is explained afterwards, or even before. Why do peple assume that because I agree with physical discipline I tie the children up in the basement and whip them for 3 hours? or beat them with a stick?

[sledheavy]

thank you! I have been alone at this. Again moderation, moderation, moderation. I continually say this, but everyone keeps thinking I would beat the kids to within an inch of their lives. A spanking that is done with a calm cool head, and then the discipline is explained afterwards, or even before. Why do peple assume that because I agree with physical discipline I tie the children up in the basement and whip them for 3 hours? or beat them with a stick?

I'm completely for moderation. But I also think that people in society fall short of knowing how or when to use it. The problem I find is how to put a limit on a physical thing. No one wants to hear that someone's beating kids, no one wants to see kids acting up. It's hard to gauge, it's hard to respect. Something with that much consideration needs to be questioned often.

Obviously if I warned a child again and again not to do something, and they do it, they should know it's coming. But is it too harsh? Who's judging? There are so many outside opinions and sources that factor into this. The answer to the problem may be so easy, but its the questions about the situation going unasked which make it hard.

I'm not a parent, but I know my integrity would be in question either by me or by the people around me. If that is disconcerning to most parents, how do I know they ever question how often or how much? Or to what effect would this lead to?

[Greatest I Am]

Man has worked hard to find out that lower animals respond better to the carrot than the stick. At dog obedience school for instance, any that are there to learn how to enforce their commands with violence against the dog are swiftly asked to leave.

Are our children less intelligent than dogs and need corporal punishment to learn to obey. I don't think so and therefore condemn violence as a proper training tool.
Any parent that spanks is just too lazy to find the trigger that would make the child respond to the loving motives for action instead of the fear motive. Why would any parent want their children to go about with fear in their heart when love is available with just a bit more work.

Regards
DL