Do you really care that I am going to hell?

[Cmass]

I don't think you really believe I will fry in Hell for being an Atheist. I don't think you really truly believe any of your non-believing family will either. I think deep down, you know it just isn't true.

If you do believe they will all fry and are not doing absolutely everything in your power to stop it, I would suggest that you are a very cold, dispassionate person. If you really believed your dearly beloved mother was going to burn in hell right next to Cmass and Charles Manson then you would stop at nothing to convince her to accept Jesus. You would not just gently encourage, you would be emotionally and perhaps even physically engaged on a daily and hourly basis. You most certainly would not be reading this silly OP right now. Not if you REALLY cared.

Think about it. If you saw your mother being beaten by someone on the street, would you stop to help save her? Would you put your own life at risk to keep her from drowning? Is there anything you would not do to help her? OK, what about eternal torture in hell? Doesn't this concern you? What about all the other people in your life who are going to hell? Doesn't this leave you feeling devastated? If I believed there was a hell and that so many people would be going - especially any of my friends or family - I would be in constant agony myself and would devote my life to stopping it. Or, I would be numb.

Does your knowledge that so many people will be in eternal torture bother you very much on a daily basis?

This OP came about after reading commentary by some of our more conservative Christian friends in here. Some seem to have no real problem with all us atheists burning in hell forever. Granted, there are probably some personal anger issues involved but still, I have always been uneasy with how casual many Christians are when it comes to discussing eternal damnation. Some get more upset over running over a kitty than the eternal torture of their best friend.

Nonetheless, I give most the benefit of the doubt: I don't think they are really that cold. I just don't think they really believe as much in the hell concept as they report.

[twobitsmedia]

Your memories are a part of your soul and aids in creating who you are. So, (1 is there a bible verse for the Lord taking your memory, or is this just something he told you while you "supped" with him? and?"

It is the latter hence it is not biblical, but it is God(lical) in nature.

2) If he takes your memory, doesn't that make this life an "excercise in futility?"

Why in futiliy, don't you have mercy on your soul? Remember that it is not your physical body who will suffer in hell, but your real soul and spirit should you do not come to and get nigh with the Lord God in our life here on earth.

For what purpose? I won't remember it anyway based on your "insight."

[Scrotum]

May I ask why you speak in plural?

I am not the only one with whom the Lord came in to, live and sup with, but to us (my family, my relatives, and friends) who are able to experience God today the way how it was when in the days of the prophets and the apostles.

Why does he speak to you and not to me? Are you superior somehow?

[adlemi]

What's the point of life on Earth if God is going to wipe us clean and make us a "totally new being in heaven without a semblance of the past"?

But that is only limited to your physical being, your spirit and soul is still yourself (only without flesh and bone) and it is in that state that you will continue to exist in eternity in heaven or in hell. The risk is still there - agony in hell. God will not wipe us clean of our sins but just of our memories here on earth.

And what is the point of Hell since if God did the exact same thing to them,

Not too fast my friend, it will be quite different in hell for in there will come a tme where you will fight or wrestle with someone who told you that there is no hell hence you believed him. If in paradise is bliss and happiness, it is the reverse in hell.

they ALSO would be totally new beings and just as qualified for heaven.

That's how you do understand what I'm saying about paradise, but did I already say something about hell?

Why not skip terrestrial life all together and just start them there in the first place since either way they will be "totally new beings"?

Will be totally new beings in the sense that you will be in the state of spirit and soul, not body with flesh and blood. But the sins still stick and stink to your soul and spirit and this qualify you to be a tenant in hell or if it is otherwise, a qualified tenant in paradise. Come to think of this, can anyone skip this terrestial life we are in today?

[adlemi]

For what purpose? I won't remember it anyway based on your "insight."

YOu won't remember anything if you will be lucky enough to be in paradise. In hell, it is not that way. See my other posts prior to this one.

[adlemi]

Why does he speak to you and not to me?

I don't know. All I know is that God said:

"Keep in your mind that the everlasting life and your salvation are in my hands. If you want to be saved, come and get nigh with Me. If you want eternal life, come and call on to Me. Put your trust in Me because if you fail to do these things, you have no salvation and eternal life. You have nowhere to go except tragedy and tribulation. "

I did come and get nigh with God and God continues to reveal Himself to us and we have seen that God is really no respector of person.

Are you superior somehow?

I don't remember any of that sort that God told us we are in our life today. All I remember is that God continues to say to us, "you are my friends and not my slaves because the slaves do not know at all what their master does and think but I, your Lord and your Almighty God, am telling you what I'm doing and what I'm thinking though not all of them you can understand".

So my friend, I am not superior somehow and we are just all equal in the eyes of God. Only God, He alone is the superior and above all of us His creations. I am nothing at all but a mere scatterer of the Lord. You, too, can be His scatterer should you come to and get nigh with Him in the right way.

[Lainey]

Doesn't "sup" mean something like "dine?" Are you saying you eat, say, dinner with God? Does he need to eat? I bet you always get the best tables at all the restaurants...

Tell me, Adlemi, I've been curious about this for awhile now--are there any special plants involved in your communion with the Lord?

Cmass, if it makes you feel any better, I don't want you to go to Hell. Luckily, I'm pretty sure you won't. If you do, you'll be in good company. Then we can all plan our revolt (never mind escape)!

I don't even get along with MY mother that well, and when I imagined your scenario I felt sick and disgusted. I tear up when other people even cry (whether I know them or not), and I just about lose it when I see a dead or almost-dead (that's worse) animal on the side of the road. My pet fish died on Monday and I've been upset about it all week, mainly because I'm afraid he suffered (he drowned). I can't even handle sad movies where I know it's not real. I'm pretty sure I'd go insane if I knew there were people suffering in Hell for eternity. This idea of Heaven would be Hell to me.

Having all your memories taken away doesn't seem like a really good thing, either. You'd be a robot.

I have a friend who's a fundamentalist, but she doesn't believe Hell is a fiery place. She thinks it's a state of separation from God, where there is no joy or anything good (she thinks everything good comes from God, and the absence of him means that there is nothing but misery). What do you think of this? I don't believe in any version of Hell, unless there's a "rehabilitation" process of some sort maybe. Is it any less cold to believe in this less physically but more psychologically painful version of hell?

[twobitsmedia]

For what purpose? I won't remember it anyway based on your "insight."

YOu won't remember anything if you will be lucky enough to be in paradise. In hell, it is not that way. See my other posts prior to this one.

So, the choices are-go to heaven and lose your mind.

or

Go to hell and keep it.

Sorry, but I am just not getting the rationale for this.

[Cmass]

Cmass wrote:
BTW: Out of curiosity, where in the bible does god or jesus say you will have no memories in heaven?

Adlemi wrote:

That is the most appalling part of the story my friend, the bible cannot teach us those things...

I'm confused. What is "appalling"? The Bible's lack of ability to teach us about this topic?

but only the real and alive God, the Lord Jesus Christ, He is the only One who can tell us those things perfectly and absolutely hence we really need to come to and get nigh

(high? )

with Him should we really want salvation and eternal life and escape the agony in hell come judgment day.

Please excuse my inability to fully comprehend your explanation. Are you saying that since the Bible does not explain about wiping out memories prior to Heavenly ascension, I have to learn it directly from Jesus?
Did you actually hear Jesus speak to you about this? If so, was it after you asked him about this matter or did he volunteer the information to you?

Finally, am I correct to assume then that the matter of your mother burning in Hell does not bother you on a daily basis in your current physical life because you know it will all be forgotten when you go to Heaven?

Thanks!
- C

[Cmass]

Vangaurd wrote:

Excuse me for pulling a "Johnny come lately" on the thread but the conundrum is not the concept of Hell but rather whether certain, specific people that you know will occupy it. Is that correct? I myself have a vague belief in something akin to Hell though I have no idea in hell who specifically will be there. There is a difference, right?

Always nice to see you Mr. Lately! Actually, as flawed as it is, I think my OP lays out the problem fairly well. "Openmind" also did an excellent job summarizing it in some of his postings.
No, I am not debating who should/should not actually go to Hell. I think that horse is kicked, beaten and down for the count.
My OP first assumes a certain kind of Hell: The one described in the Bible and described by several Christians in this thread. I also make the assumption that some people you dearly love may go there. It is my assertion that if you really do believe in Hell as described in the Bible and you are not doing everything possible on a daily basis to keep anyone you are close to from going there, then you must be a rather cold, emotionally distant person lacking in empathy. Otherwise, you would be in agony over the fact that certain loved ones will be tortured forever and working on the problem daily. For example, I saw program that discussed some nuns that give up everything, live in isolation and devote their entire lives to praying for lost souls. They REALLY believe in Hell and have given up their lives to help people out - impressive! While I personally think they are loony, I do believe they are more honest than Joe Six Pack Christian who yammers about Hell.
I also give Christians the benefit of the doubt and assume they are not actually cold, but instead don't really - deep down - believe Hell exists as described in the Bible. I am interested your emotional landscape if you are one who believes in a fire and brimstone Hell.
However, Vanguard, it does not sound like you do believe in this kind of Hell, so this might not apply to you. However, "forever" is a darned long time to be uncomfortable - even slightly uncomfortable in a watered down version of Hell - so you might want to think about how it would/could/should make you feel if someone dear to you was to experience that forever....

[adlemi]

So, the choices are-go to heaven and lose your mind..

it is just the memory of your past that you have to lose but not your mind which is still intact with your spirit and soul in paradise. you still have the free will in paradise hence you can still do bad things to your fellow out there and fall back to hell afterward.

or

Go to hell and keep it.

Not totally keep it. It depends on what the Lord will gonna give you in hell.

Sorry, but I am just not getting the rationale for this.

Not all things will be made clear enough for us to understand fully especially the spiritual ones and this is the reason why we all have to come to and entrust our all to God so that God may come in to our life and teach us the necessary things we need to attain our salvation and eternal life. And it is only in that stage where we are already in paradise or in hell that we can fully understand the reality of that new world where we are all bound to go depending on what choice we will choose before we die.