My Antitheism Paper, I'm curious for any critiques&opini

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recon82abn
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My Antitheism Paper, I'm curious for any critiques&opini

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Post by recon82abn »

The following is a short paper I just did for a philosophy class I didn't have the page requirement to go futher in depth. I'm open to any critiques in my logic or debate on any of my points as this will help me. I appreciate your time and opinions. Thanks in advance. :D

Imagine you’re at a family gathering such as Thanksgiving, people you love and have known your whole life surround you; and someone asks everyone to hold hands and bow their heads while we praise and give thanks to Zeus and the many deities that have provided the food we are about to consume. Sounds ridiculous, right? That is how I feel every time I’m asked to praise “Jesus” or “God” with family, sometimes friends and business associates at community or company dinners. If you refuse or say I don’t believe or I’m not religious, you are looked upon as if there is something wrong with you or worse, “evil.” I am not going to say being an atheist, agnostic, or antitheist is the same as being a victim of racism or being hated for being homosexual, but I believe it can have the same negative effects.

I grew up like most Midwestern kids riding bikes, playing Army and dreading being dragged to church on Sunday morning. I remember some of my early religious upbringing as a Roman Catholic. I was an altar boy and helped the priest before, during, and after mass. It seems bad that one would need to qualify “I was an altar boy” but I find myself doing so whenever it’s mentioned- “I was not molested.” I don’t remember anything of the priest other than thinking he seemed like a nice man. I attended a Catholic kindergarten then went to public schools afterward out of convenience for my mother; the school was in the next town. I only attended that church until about 4th or 5th grade when my family converted to a Protestant church. I remember not questioning anything about the existence of God but a lot of the rules didn’t make sense to me. It reminds me of a quote by Vladimir Lenin, “Give me a child for the first 5 years of his life and he will be mine forever.” I remember asking my mother why God cared what music I listened to, it seemed ridiculous to me at a young age. The change to another church didn’t make a lot of sense either, we moved to the next largest town nearby and rather than going to another Catholic church my mother began taking us to a “Christian” church. I still don’t know why she decided to switch. We changed churches a couple of times before I turned eighteen and left for the Army. It seemed we always changed and followed my grandfather when he decided to go somewhere different. I don’t know why he switched either it may have been problems with the people in the congregation, the preacher, our their interpretation didn’t match his.

I have come to the conclusion that I am an antitheist, which by the definition I choose, means opposed to religion. I don’t like to use atheist because it has an ambiguous meaning. I don’t have faith that there isn’t a god, because there can be no proof that a god doesn’t exist. There is no proof a unicorn doesn’t exist or a flying pig for that matter but I see the existence of god just as likely. I don’t deny the possibility that there is a god; I just have seen absolutely nothing to convince me that there is. This was a process that I went through alone as all my family still consider themselves Christians. It was difficult to come to terms with having been raised to believe in all this mysticism and superstition and the fear mongering the church uses to scare people into believing. I saw a billboard about a month ago that said “Avoid Hell, Repent Today.” That is an aspect that really got me going down the path of non-belief. If God were great and all loving and real for that matter, why then would leaders of churches try to scare people into attending? One of the most disturbing encounters I had with religion was after the passing of my great-grandmother. She lived a long life, I was about seventeen when she died and she was one of the kindest persons I knew. I vividly remember our preacher at the time speaking with my mother in my great-grandmother’s home, my mother was concerned about her not being baptized when she died. The preacher who was a literalist as far as the word of the bible told her plainly she would go to hell and apologized. That was about the time I began to question my faith, and of course I was told the recycled tripe they use on everyone, it’s natural it will make your faith stronger, it didn’t.

This leads me to a ridiculous argument from fear I’ve heard from some I’ve questioned belief with, Pascal’s wager. Many may not know that’s what it’s called when they use it, it’s usually jokingly said as “If I’m wrong no big deal, if you’re wrong you go to hell.” More fear. I have not heard one argument for the existence of god that has sold me; most either ignore alternatives or use circular logic by referring to the bible. Another thing I noticed was that many of the people that I knew shared my opposition were scientists, known for requiring evidence, being skeptical and being intelligent. In reviewing some of these arguments I decided I would believe in science, their explanations made more sense and they actually prove things, at least science celebrates intelligence and reasoning. This reminds me of a few quotes of famous theologian Martin Luther; “Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” Another: “Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in the house, to the closets.” Why would members of the church hate reason? Isn’t it something god gave us to adapt and flourish? No, they mock reason and tell their congregation that reason is the devil’s whore? Doesn’t make sense to me. To tie Luther into my position of religion being bad for humanity, his quotes were embraced by the Nazis and used as ammunition for the hatred of the Jews. Among the questions of my faith were: “Why does the bible contradict itself?” “ Why is there such a difference between old testament and new testament god?” “ Why do people believe that others spoke with God 2000 years ago but call those insane that claim such today?” “Why does a loving god tell people to do terrible hateful things to others?” Of course my questions were of my Christian doctrine I was taught. After that I began questioning more generally and researching other religions, I wondered with so many religions why is everyone so sure theirs’ is the right one? And I studied the history of religion and read of the depravity done in the name of god. I came to the conclusion that it is all indoctrination that is dependent upon what culture and time one grew up. Sure, there are Muslims and Jews in the U.S. and Christians in the Middle East, but the majority of “people of faith” are the same faith as their parents, and their culture.

How many of the Christians in the U.S. would be Christians if they were raised in a Muslim or any other religious culture? I would say not many. But these same people act as if they know some truth that no one else does. I believe that religion is the worst thing to happen to humanity. It sounds harsh to some, who would quickly tout the charitable efforts of religion and their followers. I retort that people who are charitable would be the same without religion, if you want to do charity you do so out of empathy, if you want to do harm you can find a religious text or interpretation to support it. In fact I don’t believe charity attributed to religious belief deserves merit. Why should one receive praise for charity if done out of hope for reward from a god or fear of a god? Isn’t this an egotist rather than a generous person? I think one deserves more praise for charity without doing it in god’s name and looking for no recognition at all.

I believe that history and current times supports my theory that religion is bad for humanity. A few examples of war and murder in religion’s name: the Crusades, the Inquisition, the slaughter of Native Americans and the concept of “Manifest Destiny”, the conflict between the pro-Christian, pro-Jewish U.S. and the Muslim Middle East, Iraq and the conflict of the different sects of their religion. What do they all have in common? Murder for God. Some may argue that “evil” people misuse religion and it’s really about peace and love. I would ask those people if they’ve ever read the Bible or Koran or their book of choice. Many haven’t and are ignorant of verses in which God tells Moses to kill the women that have slept with a man and keep the virgins for yourselves, among others. If one wants to be ethical, one does not need indoctrination. If one asks oneself honestly and objectively how the world would be different without religion I would think they would come to the conclusion of much less conflict. While some claim that people of different faiths can live together peacefully, I would say that all evidence points to the opposite. The texts of the two largest religions, Christianity and Islam, are all about spreading god’s word. Of course some people can interpret that peacefully while others interpret it as convert or die. The interpretation is subjective, what one wants to believe is what they believe.

My last point against religion for this paper is not about death but freedom. In many countries people have no choice to express their beliefs if they differ from the government’s or their culture. Some live under brutal Sharia law, others such as in Indiana can’t buy a beer on Sunday because of others’ superstition. The U.S. holds a principle against government establishment of religion but to the objective viewer or anyone without faith or of any faith besides Christianity will tell you, it doesn’t seem to be the case. Many like to falsely claim that Christians founded our government; to the contrary, many of our founding fathers were deists or despised Christianity. Our founders fled a theocratic government in England. The reason I believe freedom and religion cannot coexist is that to the believer, their “god’s law” trumps everything else. Which leads to religion poisoning freedom, if the government allows something that doesn’t fit god’s law they revolt and protest, some even commit violence. I defy anyone to argue that a self-proclaimed Atheist has a chance to be elected in the U.S. no matter how sound and reasonable his or her positions are, even if they’re the most qualified. George H.W. Bush said "I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." Doesn't sound like the president at the time believed in freedom of or from religion. If there shall be no qualification of religion required to hold a public office, why is it that everyone has to tout his or her beliefs in the man in the sky? We have untaxed churches playing in politics, telling parishioners who to vote for and lobbying politicians. I say pay the toll or shut up. We non-believers have our freedoms infringed upon by silly laws that carry no reason other than that of the bible, such as “Blue Laws.” People rail against abortion and bomb clinics in the name of god with their definition of life coming from an ancient book that predates modern science.

I don’t have time to develop all my points thoroughly, but another problem with religious infringements is in the scientific community. I’m not just talking about Copernicus, and the church of old condemning science, it’s still happening today. It’s 2007 and we still have people that don’t want evolution taught in schools, opting for creationism or “intelligent” design. We have a constituency of sheep blindly believing the bible in the face of scientific fact. Stem cells are another example of fundamentalists preventing scientific progress. It makes me wonder, if Descartes didn’t sell the Catholic Church on science with god, where mankind would be if the churches were allowed to censor science for longer. It also upsets me where mankind could be without religions suppressing reason and science.

I am happy with the decision I came to, to let my family know I don’t believe was difficult but I’m not faking it anymore. I think I understand why many want to believe. I think people want to believe there is something supernatural, that good deeds are rewarded and bad are punished. Also I think people want to believe in seeing their loved ones again and living through eternity with them. I know my belief that nothing mystical happens when you die sounds disappointing, but I contend that we should make the best out of this life and world and make utopia here, as this is all that’s guaranteed. My family still tries occasionally to get me to come back to Christianity, but it won’t work. I appreciate where they are coming from because they believe it is in my best interests. But I am confident I have given more thought, reasoning, and research as to why I reject religion than most have for believing.

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achilles12604
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Post by achilles12604 »

With my participant/debtors hat on I would say that your paper probably outlines your history and beliefs fairly concisely. For a higher grade I would suggest researching and including other atheists reasons for doubting. There are many books out there on the subject ( own several of them).

As for your content, I have to say I feel it is entirely opinion based rather than an analytical summation of facts surrounding your positions. Of course my own viewpoint is based much more on facts which have been forged on the anvil that are the atheists of THIS forum, so I can't say you are wrong for using the tactic you have. I can simply say I would have approached it from a more factual point of view. But each to their own.

For the benefit of my own time (which is limited right now) I won't address each of your points individually. However, if you wished to examine each of them on this forum, you may very well increase your own personal view point and knowledge. There are many highly intelligent people here ready and able to help sort through the meat and fat of your reasons.



Now with a Moderator hat on, This paper has no debate question so I am going to move it to General Chat. In the future read through the rules and suggestions on starting a debating topic. Narrow down your points to a one by one method, include a question for debate with each one, and I'm sure you will have much to offer our hungry minds.


Welcome to the forum. :wave:
It is a first class human tragedy that people of the earth who claim to believe in the message of Jesus, whom they describe as the Prince of Peace, show little of that belief in actual practice.

recon82abn
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Thanks Achilles

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Post by recon82abn »

I appreciate your response and as you have seen I am new to this forum. I look forward to browsing the threads and honing my reason. :D This was a philosophical paper that was about reasoning why i came to a judgment and not necessarily a thesis purporting fact. There are other things that help me come to my conclusion but i am always looking for more information.

Also, what are some of your recommended books?

Thanks

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achilles12604
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Post by achilles12604 »

Books? Depends on what you are looking for.

Collins - The language of God - A great book about how science and faith interact.

CS Lewis - Mere Christianity - A decent overview of the faith.

Folk - Coming to peace with science - Another good science/faith book.


My personal favorite book - Sphere Michael Crighton
It is a first class human tragedy that people of the earth who claim to believe in the message of Jesus, whom they describe as the Prince of Peace, show little of that belief in actual practice.

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achilles12604 wrote:Books? Depends on what you are looking for.

Collins - The language of God - A great book about how science and faith interact.

CS Lewis - Mere Christianity - A decent overview of the faith.

Folk - Coming to peace with science - Another good science/faith book.


My personal favorite book - Sphere Michael Crighton
I would recommend:

Brave New World as an example of a perfect society without any religion (no problems, all good and the ignorants still holding on to fantasies can live primitive amongst themselves).

Just an example. I found some actual faults in the paper, but that is because you had american history and been told these things, so it is "true" for you. But im currently not in the mood to sit and write right now. So i wont. :)
T: ´I do not believe in gravity, it´s just a theory

recon82abn
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Scrotum

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Post by recon82abn »

I'll definitely check out that book, sounds very interesting. Also I have studied and passed with A's college level American history I and II and have also excelled in my current world civilization course, so I'm interested in your points when you get a chance to write them.

I'm not stating that I MUST be correct, but I thought I had a pretty good understanding as history is one of my favorite subjects and I'm not talking about the fairy tales taught in U.S. K-12 history. :lol:

I don't see any historical errors other than if you dispute that manifest destiny had nothing to do with religion although the destiny part was mostly attributed to God so I can concede there depending on your interpretation. But the Inquisition, Crusades, founding fathers not being Christians I see no errors so I am very curious to see what you contend. If it is a matter of time you may refer me to a link or another post that sums up your points that would be great.

Thanks for your time

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Re: Thanks Achilles

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Post by bernee51 »

recon82abn wrote:I appreciate your response and as you have seen I am new to this forum. I look forward to browsing the threads and honing my reason. :D This was a philosophical paper that was about reasoning why i came to a judgment and not necessarily a thesis purporting fact. There are other things that help me come to my conclusion but i am always looking for more information.

Also, what are some of your recommended books?

Thanks
If you want an book with a more philosophical focus that deconstructs the major monotheisms I can recommend "Atheist Manifesto' by Michel Onfray. A more easily read 'coffee table magazine' view is provided by Christopher Hitchens in "God is not great"
"Whatever you are totally ignorant of, assert to be the explanation of everything else"

William James quoting Dr. Hodgson

"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."

Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Post by recon82abn »

Great, I'll check them out thanks.

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Post #9

Post by Zzyzx »

Hi Recon,

Welcome to the forum. There is nothing like jumping right in. The people responding to you here are some of the best debaters among forum members, in my opinion.

There are those who will criticize nearly anything you say simply because you are identified as being opposed to religion, and some feel compelled to defend every point of every issue regarding religion. There are members who will use all manner of unfair debate tactics in order to "win" a point. Keep your cool and let them make fools of themselves if they wish.

If you have the time to read, there are lots of interesting threads current and past -- some of which addressed issues you raised in the OP. There is nothing wrong with repeating a topic, though some will object.

Regarding books, you might consider the two in my signature line (once you are finished with all the others recommended).

Welcome, enjoy your stay.
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ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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