Do you really care that I am going to hell?

[Cmass]

I don't think you really believe I will fry in Hell for being an Atheist. I don't think you really truly believe any of your non-believing family will either. I think deep down, you know it just isn't true.

If you do believe they will all fry and are not doing absolutely everything in your power to stop it, I would suggest that you are a very cold, dispassionate person. If you really believed your dearly beloved mother was going to burn in hell right next to Cmass and Charles Manson then you would stop at nothing to convince her to accept Jesus. You would not just gently encourage, you would be emotionally and perhaps even physically engaged on a daily and hourly basis. You most certainly would not be reading this silly OP right now. Not if you REALLY cared.

Think about it. If you saw your mother being beaten by someone on the street, would you stop to help save her? Would you put your own life at risk to keep her from drowning? Is there anything you would not do to help her? OK, what about eternal torture in hell? Doesn't this concern you? What about all the other people in your life who are going to hell? Doesn't this leave you feeling devastated? If I believed there was a hell and that so many people would be going - especially any of my friends or family - I would be in constant agony myself and would devote my life to stopping it. Or, I would be numb.

Does your knowledge that so many people will be in eternal torture bother you very much on a daily basis?

This OP came about after reading commentary by some of our more conservative Christian friends in here. Some seem to have no real problem with all us atheists burning in hell forever. Granted, there are probably some personal anger issues involved but still, I have always been uneasy with how casual many Christians are when it comes to discussing eternal damnation. Some get more upset over running over a kitty than the eternal torture of their best friend.

Nonetheless, I give most the benefit of the doubt: I don't think they are really that cold. I just don't think they really believe as much in the hell concept as they report.

[twobitsmedia]

Does your knowledge that so many people will be in eternal torture bother you very much on a daily basis?

I will admit that it does not bother me enough sometimes. A teacher told me years ago "never speak about hell without tears." That has stuck with me. If one truly believes it exists, they should not be so happy about seeing people go there, and seem like they enjoy condemning people to it (Not that they can, though, in reality). Regardless of what anyones position is right now, I have no idea where they are going to end up. .

[Lainey]

A teacher told me years ago "never speak about hell without tears."

If one really believes in it, why would they need to be taught that? That sounds very manipulative to me.

[twobitsmedia]

A teacher told me years ago "never speak about hell without tears."

If one really believes in it, why would they need to be taught that? That sounds very manipulative to me.

I dont believe I used the word taught. I know a lot of teachers who say stuff.

[Lainey]

So why would they feel the need to say that? It sounds like they were trying to teach it.

No one ever says, "Never speak of the murder of a small child without tears." I am trying to come up with something awful that people have heard about (unfortunately) and can relate to. No one needs to say it--most people choke up when terrible things like that happen.

[Vanguard]

E-rider - You bring to the forefront some troubling issues. Let's break it down by paragraph:

Au contraire. I believe those who reject Christ are going down to the Pit for eternity, whether they are family or atheists. It's on you, not us.

You skirt dangerously close to claiming that you and other Christians are the "chosen ones" to deliver this message as suggested by your final comment, "It's on you, not us." I consider myself a Christian though I do not presume my effort to convert non-believers is their "chance" to get into heaven. Yikes, that's pretty heady stuff.

You will get the Word of God for a time. And once you harden your heart to the truth of Christ's salvation, then that's it. Every time you say no to him that hardens your heart just a little bit more, and makes it that much easier to say no in the future.

Again, engaging in what many times on this forum amounts to petty cat-fighting is considered the non-believers' opportunity for "getting the Word of God for a time"? Do I have that right? Their rejection of your delivery (or mine for that matter) constitutes "say[ing] no to him"?

We're (Christians in this forum) here to try to lead people to the truth. Yeah, it saddens many of us that people reject Christ. We can only do so much. There's other people to reach and not much time. If you're fortunate, God will send someone else to give you the Word after us. But perhaps not. But I'm not going to feel guilty if people continue to reject Christ. I can feel sad for them, but not guilty.

Our efforts "to lead people to the truth" might fall woefully short of the mark so much that it may not even be a legitimate invitation in the Savior's eyes. Honestly E-rider, I am flattered into thinking that I've been giving "them" the Word and that there will be others after me. This idea, however, of washing your hands of any further obligation to present the gospel because don't you know "I've done my job. I can't help it if they're too stubborn to feel the quickening of the spirit through my more pure vessel" leaves me feeling sick to my stomach.

I admire your conversion to the gospel. I too am converting it seems on a daily basis. Please focus more on the patient, humble call to spread His good word without having to obsess over whether or not the recipient is swayed by the persuasiveness/force of your clarion call.

[twobitsmedia]

So why would they feel the need to say that? It sounds like they were trying to teach it.

No one ever says, "Never speak of the murder of a small child without tears." I am trying to come up with something awful that people have heard about (unfortunately) and can relate to. No one needs to say it--most people choke up when terrible things like that happen.

If you happen to be speaking about the subject of murdering children, one might say it. If one were discussing hell with other people one might what that teacher said. You must be easily manipulated or it wouldn't bother you. So is everything people say that they believe a manipulation or an attempt to teach something?

[Zzyzx]

Please focus more on the patient, humble call to spread His good word without having to obsess over whether or not the recipient is swayed by the persuasiveness/force of your clarion call.

Excellent point -- well made. Attempting to promote Christianity with aggressiveness and elitism is similar to attempting to promote democracy with guns. Both may appear to succeed temporarily, but both are an indication of failure.

[Lainey]

I will admit that it does not bother me enough sometimes. A teacher told me years ago "never speak about hell without tears." That has stuck with me. If one truly believes it exists, they should not be so happy about seeing people go there, and seem like they enjoy condemning people to it (Not that they can, though, in reality). Regardless of what anyones position is right now, I have no idea where they are going to end up. .

So you're not entirely sure you believe in it, then? That's what I'm getting from this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You must be easily manipulated or it wouldn't bother you.

What does this ad hominem have to do with anything?

So is everything people say that they believe a manipulation or an attempt to teach something?

How should I know? What I'm interested in is what your teacher meant. "Never speak about Hell without tears." Why? What do you think he/she meant? Because it's a horrific thought, and you should be upset about it? Or to appeal to the guilt or sympathy of your audience, and so win people to your way of thinking? Or some other reason I might be missing?

[twobitsmedia]

So you're not entirely sure you believe in it, then? That's what I'm getting from this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

you're wrong

You must be easily manipulated or it wouldn't bother you.

What does this ad hominem have to do with anything?

How a person judges something usually says more about them then what they are judging. I don't see how the comment even suggests manipulation. You, on the other hand, judge it based on personal crieteria from somewhere.

So is everything people say that they believe a manipulation or an attempt to teach something?

How should I know? What I'm interested in is what your teacher meant. "Never speak about Hell without tears." Why? What do you think he/she meant? Because it's a horrific thought, and you should be upset about it? Or to appeal to the guilt or sympathy of your audience, and so win people to your way of thinking? Or some other reason I might be missing?

Let me get this straight. You already made the unfounded "manipulation" critique on my comment, and then say "How should I know?" You assumed then, and now you don't know.

[Openmind]

Vanguard,

I admire that post of yours, it was very insightful.

Like has been said, this issue has been brought up before, a lot of christians do seem to skirt around the issue. My christian friend tells me he is sad that we can't share eternity together, similarly to what Easyrider had to say.

But I'm not going to feel guilty if people continue to reject Christ. I can feel sad for them, but not guilty.

Easyrider, as a human being making an observation of another human being, I can only say two things to both you and my friend, as have all ready been pointed out by Cmass. Note, that this has nothing to do with religion. This is not directed at Easyrider the christian, and it's not coming from Openmind the atheist.

1. You don't really believe your non-believing friends and family will suffer in hell. Superficially, you might think we will spend eternity in hell, but deep down, in your subconscious, you have doubts and don't truly, 100% believe it.

2. You are an emotionless, selfish robot, driven by a need to save yourself. You might do a bit to save others, but when the going gets tough, you are prepared to give up, let them suffer their well-deserved fate and bask the knowledge that you have nothing to worry about, and that a place in paradise is assured.

Nothing short of a monster could be happy living with the fact that others they know and love will be in hell. Hell, by all biblical definitions is a horrible place. I'm sure you have been burned before. Imagine that, all over your body. Not just for an instant, but for eternity, for all time. Neverending torment. Now picture a loved one Easyrider, crying in agony, wailing out for help. Appealing to you, who sits happy in heaven. Would you feel any emotion?

If you are a compassionate, selfless human, you will spend the rest of your life making sure they believe. Attempting to convert, non-stop. If 50 years of brainwashing and constant bible-bashing leaves them with a place in paradise, who gives a rats about their autonomy? Alternatively, you could give up, assume someone else (or no one else) will come along, and let them suffer for being blind to the truth.

Have you considered that maybe they don't come from a religious background, ergo conversion will take longer?

Perhaps they are more skeptical than your average convertee, and need extra assistance?

Had another religion bashed in throughout their childhood?

Your own methods need to be altered?

Giving up is lazy and selfish.

Enjoy your eternity, Easyrider, with the knowledge that every non-believer you loved and cherished is simultaneously suffering in complete agony. That more than 60% of your race is crying and sobbing in torment.
Great existence that will be for all those in heaven.