Biblical Law?

[POI]

According to the Bible, many acts/actions are against "the law". All such acts/actions would also be deemed 'sin', and/or, 'missing the mark'. Further, some of these deemed broken laws are also punishable by death in various ways.

God has the opportunity to list (any/all) acts/actions in which he deems "unlawful" and/or "sinful". And yet, the topic of (owning other humans as property for life, for which can be beaten with impunity for life), somehow did NOT make it to the large list of God's "no-no's"? A matter-of-fact, it is quite the opposite; in that the Bible instead condones owning humans as property - for which can be beaten just short of death, for their lifetime.

For debate:

1) If God has the power to abolish (any/all) acts/actions in which he does not like, (while also knowing countless people will just violate many of them anyways), why then exclude the topic of 'chattel slavery' from the list of no-no's and instead condone it?

2) Why worship a God which disagrees with your moral compass? Unless you believe it IS moral to own other humans as permanent property as a form of "chattel slaves"?

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P.S. -- And for the record, some may try to wiggle out of this topic by sighting the 'golden rule' - as mentioned in Leviticus 19:18 and also in the "NT". However, this argument fails because then God would not need to bother with virtually any listed "no-no's". And yet, bothers to list MANY "no-no's" anyways. And further, instead goes out of his way to condone chattel slavery. Which, at best for the believer, is a contradiction to the listed 'golden rule.' But we all know that the rules aren't the same for all, when it comes to the ('Jewish' vs 'non-Jewish') men, women, and children alike...

[Tcg]

The Bible shows masters how they must treat their slaves lovingly.

Well, it shows how they may be treated given that they are property. Lovingly? Not buying that one, I've read the book.

Exodus 21:20-21

20 “When a slaveowner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment, for the slave is the owner’s property.


Tcg

[POI]

@POI, Such "hired workers" who have to serve their master until jubilee are still, therefore, really the same as slaves because they have to work for them during that time. There is very little difference. The only difference is that they are "brothers," not Israelites.

There is a difference and I already explained why. I explained in post 48. If you are labeled a 'slave', you can be beaten with impunity, as long as you do not die too fast, or as long as your eye(s)/teeth don't get removed -- (which is likely why most slave masters whipped their slaves on the back), and you are to be kept for life. See Leviticus 25 & Exodus 21 for details. (i.e.):

Lev. 25:39 If any who are dependent on you become so impoverished that they sell themselves to you, you shall not make them serve as slaves. 40 They shall remain with you as hired or bound labourers. They shall serve with you until the year of the jubilee. 41 Then they and their children with them shall be free from your authority; they shall go back to their own family and return to their ancestral property. 42 For they are my servants, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt; they shall not be sold as slaves are sold.

And...

Lev. 25:44 As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. 45 You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. 46 You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness.

And...

Ex. 21:20 When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. 21 But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.

By the way, what is the difference between being owned and not owned, if we have to work for someone?

Leviticus 25:39-46 explains the differences between a 'hired laborer" and a "slave". The 'slave' is deemed property, can be beaten with impunity, and is kept for life.

The Bible shows masters how they must treat their slaves lovingly.

No, it doesn't. I have brought receipts to demonstrate to the contrary. You are bringing nothing but wishful thinking.

That is the most important detail.

Two things....

1) A more important detail would be for the Bible god to simply tell it's readers that no one should own another as lifetime property, which is really no different than condoning chattel slavery. But since the Bible instructs what it instructs, chattel slavery is condoned.

2) The 'most important detail' you wish were there, is not actually there in reality.

Then, later, Christians set slaves free, a fact that demonstrates that God works his Word about human value out in history.

LOL! Humans have later changed the law (to spite the writings of the Bible) elsewhere too. Further, humans, in many parts of the world, now condemn chattel slavery practices instead of condoning them.

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to Tcg in post #51]

@tcg, Jesus has done away with the external form of the old-covenant law that you quote and instituted the new covenant that says in the words of the Apostle Paul,

Eph 6:5  Bondservants, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, 
Eph 6:6  not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, 
Eph 6:7  rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man, 
Eph 6:8  knowing that whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether he is a bondservant or is free. 
Eph 6:9  Masters, do the same to them, and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him. 

In one sense, all believers are slaves of Jesus Christ, but we are also adopted children, who want to obey him. His death and resurrection have brought that situation about. We, thus, have been released from the slavery to Satan in which everyone has been born.

[POI]

@tcg, Jesus has done away with the external form of the old-covenant law that you quote

More wishful thinking... According to Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus instead said this...

Matt. 5:17 ‘Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfil. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

and instituted the new covenant that says in the words of the Apostle Paul,

Eph 6:5  Bondservants, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, 
Eph 6:6  not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, 
Eph 6:7  rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man, 
Eph 6:8  knowing that whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether he is a bondservant or is free. 
Eph 6:9  Masters, do the same to them, and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him. 

Please show me where chattel slavery practices is abolished here?

In one sense, all believers are slaves of Jesus Christ,

More "cope." If you wish to water down or broadbrush the term THIS much, then sure.

but we are also adopted children, who want to obey him. His death and resurrection have brought that situation about. We, thus, have been released from the slavery to Satan in which everyone has been born.

Copious maximum...

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to POI in post #54]

@POI, you don't just disagree with me; you also disagree with the Bible's truths, which I share with you. That's your choice. My responsibility is done.

[POI]

@POI, you don't just disagree with me; you also disagree with the Bible's truths

@Bruce, the Bible itself does not agree with your interpretation. You have come with nothing but (blank/unsupported) assertion(s), <filled with wishful thinking> about what the Bible actually states. I have clearly demonstrated that the Bible provides two distinct rulesets between 1) slaves vs. 2) laborers. Where slaves are concerned, the Bible instructs that a slave:

a) ... is the master's property for life (Leviticus 25:44-46)
b) ... can be beaten with impunity, as long as they do not die immediately (Exodus 21:21)

My responsibility is done.

@Bruce, this a debate forum. You have failed to demonstrate your blank claims. The fact of the matter is that the Bible condones/endorses lifetime chattel slavery. This is your cross to bear, no pun intended. I take it you are dipping out now? I do not blame you.