Christianity As A Religious Group (Sect)

[OneJack]

1. Did the Lord Jesus Christ, during His incarnation among the apostles and disciples, establish a religious sect that many call Christianity today?

2. Do we need to be affiliated with or members of this group to become Christians?

3. How could we become true followers of the Lord Jesus Christ?

[bjs1]

1. Did the Lord Jesus Christ, during His incarnation among the apostles and disciples, establish a religious sect that many call Christianity today?

No, his disciples established the religious sect that worships Jesus after Jesus’ reported death and resurrection. Pentecost is generally accepted as the day when church, and thus the “religious sect that many call Christianity,” was founded.

Since the Lord did not establish a religious group, we don't have to affiliate ourselves with any groupings, do we? If the disciples established a religious sect, as you claim, would that mean they would override the Lord in this regard?

Jesus did not write anything down. Everything we know about our Lord’s teachings comes from his Disciples. This is why from the beginning the church has always said that it was built on the teachings of the Apostles. To worship without the teachings of the Apostles is to worship a God we do not know.

2. Do we need to be affiliated with or members of this group to become Christian

Need? Well, Christianity is a faith lived out in community. From nearly the beginning the “communion of saints” has been an essential part of the Christian faith. I don’t know if we absolutely need to be in the church to be a Christian, but at the same time I don’t know if I could call someone a Christian if they willfully remove themselves from all Christian community.

If you say we need, where is the commandment of the Lord Jesus for this affiliation, per se?

Hebrews 10:25 directly commands us to “not giving up meeting together.” Jesus talked about the importance of the church and gathering in worship in Matthew 18:20, John 13:34-35, Matthew 16:18, and Matthew 16:18. The book of Acts describes how Jesus first disciples operated within a church setting. The Apostle Paul confirmed the importance and function of the church in 1 Corinthians 12:12-27, Ephesians 4:11-13, Romans 12:4-5, and Philippians 1:3-5.

3. How could we become true followers of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Umm… by being his disciple and following the teaching of the Apostles.

If we follow the teachings of the apostles in the bible, don't you think we'll become followers of the bible and the apostles, who are all long gone?

Again, we only know what our Lord taught by what his Apostles wrote. Any teaching of Jesus that does not come from the Apostles must be considered fictitious.

[bdavidc]

[Replying to OneJack in post #1]

The first problem is the wording. Scripture does not present Christianity as a man-made religious sect that someone joins to become acceptable to God. That is not biblical language. Jesus did not come to launch a religious brand. He came to save sinners and build His church.

Jesus said, “I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” ~Matthew 16:18. That is Christ’s work, not man’s institution. If we reduce that to a “religious group,” we have already lowered the issue beneath the words of Christ.

The word “Christian” in Scripture is connected to discipleship, not mere affiliation. Acts 11:26 says, “And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.” Notice that. They were disciples before they were called Christians. The name did not make them disciples. Following Christ did.

No one becomes a Christian by joining a sect, denomination, organization, or religious movement. Scripture says, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” ~John 3:3. It says, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved” ~Acts 16:31. It says, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God” ~Ephesians 2:8.

So the answer to the second question is no. We do not need membership in a religious group to become Christians. We need Christ. “He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” ~1 John 5:12. That verse does not say, “he that hath the group.” It says, “he that hath the Son.”

But that does not give anyone permission to despise the assembly of believers. Scripture does not teach isolated Christianity. Acts 2:42 says the believers “continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.” Hebrews 10:25 says, “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together.”

A true follower of Christ is not made by a label. He is made by the new birth, faith in Christ, repentance toward God, and continuing in Christ’s word. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” ~John 8:31. He also said, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me” ~Luke 9:23.

So the biblical answer is plain. Christ did not establish a religious sect. He builds His church. A man is not saved by joining a group. He must be born again. And if he truly belongs to Christ, he will follow Christ, continue in His word, and walk with Christ’s people under the apostles’ doctrine.

[OneJack]

1. Did the Lord Jesus Christ, during His incarnation among the apostles and disciples, establish a religious sect that many call Christianity today?

2. Do we need to be affiliated with or members of this group to become Christians?

3. How could we become true followers of the Lord Jesus Christ?

I'll point out for your benefit, Paul, while being falsely accused by the enemies of Jesus Christ in Acts 24, also called the Way a "sect", which is something for you to consider.

ldb

*edited for grammatical clarity

Acts 24:14. However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.

By simple substitution in mathematics, we have Jesus is the Way; hence, Paul was a follower of Jesus. The question now is, how could we be followers of Jesus Christ?

Having right Christology

Could you tell us the way to have the right Christology? Who will teach that to us?

and following the Way as a child of God is not determined by substitutional mathematics.

Again, how can we follow the Way, which is the Lord Jesus alone? What shall we do to be able to follow the Lord Jesus until the end so that we are always saved?

That said:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Thus saith the Lord Jesus today:

"I am the Pastor, I am the Good Pastor. Remember, no one else will teach you except Me. If you explain to one another, it's only according to your own will, according to your own thoughts. So remember, anyone who stands as a pastor, who stands as a leader of My church, is working iniquity and stealing My place as the Good Pastor. Because you are only human, you who are pastors, you who teach and stand before people, you who work iniquity, you who cast out demons in My name, remember that when I return, many will call out to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we do mighty works and cast out demons in Your name, didn't we heal?' But remember, I will say to them, 'I never knew you, I never recognized you, you who work iniquity, you who cast out demons.' Remember, when you cast out demons, you're taking away the role that belongs to Me. If you encounter someone possessed by a demon, just pray to Me, and I am ready to hear your prayer and will listen to every complaint you whisper to Me, every cry you make, every prayer you offer. I will help you and never abandon you, especially those who are Mine and follow Me."

[OneJack]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #11]

Jesus did not write anything down. Everything we know about our Lord’s teachings comes from his Disciples.

This is quite absurd. Are you saying Jesus' teachings are incomplete, and the disciples were the ones who completed them? If everything we have to know about the Lord's teachings comes from the disciples, then we are, undoubtedly, knowing the disciples' teachings, not the Lord Jesus' teachings. How could this have happened to us?

This is why from the beginning the church has always said that it was built on the teachings of the Apostles. To worship without the teachings of the Apostles is to worship a God we do not know.

I'm so dumbfounded by what you're saying here; the apostles' teachings, as you portrayed, appeared to be God, and without their teachings, there would be no God.

Hebrews 10:25 directly commands us to “not giving up meeting together.”

Hebrews 10:25 is a biblical verse, and it does not command you anything, does it? How could a verse, which does not speak and live, speak to you in this context?

Jesus talked about the importance of the church and gathering in worship in Matthew 18:20, John 13:34-35, Matthew 16:18, and Matthew 16:18. The book of Acts describes how Jesus first disciples operated within a church setting. The Apostle Paul confirmed the importance and function of the church in 1 Corinthians 12:12-27, Ephesians 4:11-13, Romans 12:4-5, and Philippians 1:3-5.

The mere fact that Jesus established no church for all of us to be affiliated to, across all generations, why do you have to affiliate yourself today to a man-made church headed by your fellow men, but not of Christ, who, alone, is the Pastor and Teacher in His flock?

Again, we only know what our Lord taught by what his Apostles wrote. Any teaching of Jesus that does not come from the Apostles must be considered fictitious.

Haven't you read in your bible that Jesus is Immanuel [God with us]? Isn't Jesus calling all of us, across all generations, to come to Him for us to have life? Where in the bible can we read that the Lord Jesus directed all of us to what the apostles had written about Him, and anything that does not emanate from the apostles is fictitious?

[1213]

Are you saying that the bible is the Lord Jesus Christ?

No, I believe it has the words of Jesus Christ.

[OneJack]

Are you saying that the bible is the Lord Jesus Christ?

No, I believe it has the words of Jesus Christ.

If you are a disciple of Jesus, i.e. a Christian, you

don't necessarily need to defend for example Luther's teachings, it is
enough to focus on the words of Jesus. It makes your position easier

and feels easier when you clearly define the area you want to de-
fend, and don't start defending areas that don't belong to you.

Is your phrase, 'the words of Jesus', the words allegedly uttered by Jesus [written] in the bible?

[lastdaysbeliever]

1. Did the Lord Jesus Christ, during His incarnation among the apostles and disciples, establish a religious sect that many call Christianity today?

2. Do we need to be affiliated with or members of this group to become Christians?

3. How could we become true followers of the Lord Jesus Christ?

I'll point out for your benefit, Paul, while being falsely accused by the enemies of Jesus Christ in Acts 24, also called the Way a "sect", which is something for you to consider.

ldb

*edited for grammatical clarity

Acts 24:14. However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.

By simple substitution in mathematics, we have Jesus is the Way; hence, Paul was a follower of Jesus. The question now is, how could we be followers of Jesus Christ?

Having right Christology

Could you tell us the way to have the right Christology? Who will teach that to us?

and following the Way as a child of God is not determined by substitutional mathematics.

Again, how can we follow the Way, which is the Lord Jesus alone? What shall we do to be able to follow the Lord Jesus until the end so that we are always saved?

That said:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Thus saith the Lord Jesus today:

"I am the Pastor, I am the Good Pastor. Remember, no one else will teach you except Me. If you explain to one another, it's only according to your own will, according to your own thoughts. So remember, anyone who stands as a pastor, who stands as a leader of My church, is working iniquity and stealing My place as the Good Pastor. Because you are only human, you who are pastors, you who teach and stand before people, you who work iniquity, you who cast out demons in My name, remember that when I return, many will call out to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we do mighty works and cast out demons in Your name, didn't we heal?' But remember, I will say to them, 'I never knew you, I never recognized you, you who work iniquity, you who cast out demons.' Remember, when you cast out demons, you're taking away the role that belongs to Me. If you encounter someone possessed by a demon, just pray to Me, and I am ready to hear your prayer and will listen to every complaint you whisper to Me, every cry you make, every prayer you offer. I will help you and never abandon you, especially those who are Mine and follow Me."

I get the sense you don't believe Scripture is the rule and standard for the faith given us by Jesus. That said, care to reference where you got your quote? It's poor tactic to quote something and not give proper credit.

[OneJack]

I'll point out for your benefit, Paul, while being falsely accused by the enemies of Jesus Christ in Acts 24, also called the Way a "sect", which is something for you to consider.

ldb

*edited for grammatical clarity

Acts 24:14. However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.

By simple substitution in mathematics, we have Jesus is the Way; hence, Paul was a follower of Jesus. The question now is, how could we be followers of Jesus Christ?

Having right Christology

Could you tell us the way to have the right Christology? Who will teach that to us?

and following the Way as a child of God is not determined by substitutional mathematics.

Again, how can we follow the Way, which is the Lord Jesus alone? What shall we do to be able to follow the Lord Jesus until the end so that we are always saved?

That said:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Thus saith the Lord Jesus today:

"I am the Pastor, I am the Good Pastor. Remember, no one else will teach you except Me. If you explain to one another, it's only according to your own will, according to your own thoughts. So remember, anyone who stands as a pastor, who stands as a leader of My church, is working iniquity and stealing My place as the Good Pastor. Because you are only human, you who are pastors, you who teach and stand before people, you who work iniquity, you who cast out demons in My name, remember that when I return, many will call out to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we do mighty works and cast out demons in Your name, didn't we heal?' But remember, I will say to them, 'I never knew you, I never recognized you, you who work iniquity, you who cast out demons.' Remember, when you cast out demons, you're taking away the role that belongs to Me. If you encounter someone possessed by a demon, just pray to Me, and I am ready to hear your prayer and will listen to every complaint you whisper to Me, every cry you make, every prayer you offer. I will help you and never abandon you, especially those who are Mine and follow Me."

I get the sense you don't believe Scripture is the rule and standard for the faith given us by Jesus.

Could show us where and when Jesus instructed His disciples/apostles/sons/friends to make the scriptures the 'rule and standard for the faith given by Him (Jesus) to them?

So far, the Lord has this to say about the scriptures, to wit:

John 5:39. You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

[lastdaysbeliever]

Acts 24:14. However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.

By simple substitution in mathematics, we have Jesus is the Way; hence, Paul was a follower of Jesus. The question now is, how could we be followers of Jesus Christ?

Having right Christology

Could you tell us the way to have the right Christology? Who will teach that to us?

and following the Way as a child of God is not determined by substitutional mathematics.

Again, how can we follow the Way, which is the Lord Jesus alone? What shall we do to be able to follow the Lord Jesus until the end so that we are always saved?

That said:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Thus saith the Lord Jesus today:

"I am the Pastor, I am the Good Pastor. Remember, no one else will teach you except Me. If you explain to one another, it's only according to your own will, according to your own thoughts. So remember, anyone who stands as a pastor, who stands as a leader of My church, is working iniquity and stealing My place as the Good Pastor. Because you are only human, you who are pastors, you who teach and stand before people, you who work iniquity, you who cast out demons in My name, remember that when I return, many will call out to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we do mighty works and cast out demons in Your name, didn't we heal?' But remember, I will say to them, 'I never knew you, I never recognized you, you who work iniquity, you who cast out demons.' Remember, when you cast out demons, you're taking away the role that belongs to Me. If you encounter someone possessed by a demon, just pray to Me, and I am ready to hear your prayer and will listen to every complaint you whisper to Me, every cry you make, every prayer you offer. I will help you and never abandon you, especially those who are Mine and follow Me."

I get the sense you don't believe Scripture is the rule and standard for the faith given us by Jesus.

Could show us where and when Jesus instructed His disciples/apostles/sons/friends to make the scriptures the 'rule and standard for the faith given by Him (Jesus) to them?

So far, the Lord has this to say about the scriptures, to wit:

John 5:39. You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Please reference where.you got this quote:

I am the Pastor, I am the Good Pastor. Remember, no one else will teach you except Me. If you explain to one another, it's only according to your own will, according to your own thoughts. So remember, anyone who stands as a pastor, who stands as a leader of My church, is working iniquity and stealing My place as the Good Pastor. Because you are only human, you who are pastors, you who teach and stand before people, you who work iniquity, you who cast out demons in My name, remember that when I return, many will call out to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we do mighty works and cast out demons in Your name, didn't we heal?' But remember, I will say to them, 'I never knew you, I never recognized you, you who work iniquity, you who cast out demons.' Remember, when you cast out demons, you're taking away the role that belongs to Me. If you encounter someone possessed by a demon, just pray to Me, and I am ready to hear your prayer and will listen to every complaint you whisper to Me, every cry you make, every prayer you offer. I will help you and never abandon you, especially those who are Mine and follow Me."

[OneJack]

Having right Christology

Could you tell us the way to have the right Christology? Who will teach that to us?

and following the Way as a child of God is not determined by substitutional mathematics.

Again, how can we follow the Way, which is the Lord Jesus alone? What shall we do to be able to follow the Lord Jesus until the end so that we are always saved?

That said:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Thus saith the Lord Jesus today:

"I am the Pastor, I am the Good Pastor. Remember, no one else will teach you except Me. If you explain to one another, it's only according to your own will, according to your own thoughts. So remember, anyone who stands as a pastor, who stands as a leader of My church, is working iniquity and stealing My place as the Good Pastor. Because you are only human, you who are pastors, you who teach and stand before people, you who work iniquity, you who cast out demons in My name, remember that when I return, many will call out to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we do mighty works and cast out demons in Your name, didn't we heal?' But remember, I will say to them, 'I never knew you, I never recognized you, you who work iniquity, you who cast out demons.' Remember, when you cast out demons, you're taking away the role that belongs to Me. If you encounter someone possessed by a demon, just pray to Me, and I am ready to hear your prayer and will listen to every complaint you whisper to Me, every cry you make, every prayer you offer. I will help you and never abandon you, especially those who are Mine and follow Me."

I get the sense you don't believe Scripture is the rule and standard for the faith given us by Jesus.

Could show us where and when Jesus instructed His disciples/apostles/sons/friends to make the scriptures the 'rule and standard for the faith given by Him (Jesus) to them?

So far, the Lord has this to say about the scriptures, to wit:

John 5:39. You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Please reference where.you got this quote:

I am the Pastor, I am the Good Pastor. Remember, no one else will teach you except Me. If you explain to one another, it's only according to your own will, according to your own thoughts. So remember, anyone who stands as a pastor, who stands as a leader of My church, is working iniquity and stealing My place as the Good Pastor. Because you are only human, you who are pastors, you who teach and stand before people, you who work iniquity, you who cast out demons in My name, remember that when I return, many will call out to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we do mighty works and cast out demons in Your name, didn't we heal?' But remember, I will say to them, 'I never knew you, I never recognized you, you who work iniquity, you who cast out demons.' Remember, when you cast out demons, you're taking away the role that belongs to Me. If you encounter someone possessed by a demon, just pray to Me, and I am ready to hear your prayer and will listen to every complaint you whisper to Me, every cry you make, every prayer you offer. I will help you and never abandon you, especially those who are Mine and follow Me."

Those words were uttered to us by the Lord Jesus in the year 2001 when He came into our lives. He shepherded us randomly for approximately 14 years.

Could you kindly respond to my question this time?