In Search of the Real Jesus

[Richard Aberdeen]

There is no historical or other evidence that Jesus is the founder of either Christianity or any other religion. Rather, from a fair historical perspective, Jesus offers free salvation for sinners and is the founder of free quality education for the common masses. Much of what Jesus teaches agrees with modern human and civil rights theory (which is exactly what one might expect from the true Messiah). Due to the extreme bias of both orthodox religious people and secular historians and scholars, Jesus is rarely if ever viewed within the same context as public education, a very grave error on their part.

Virtually the entire focus of the words and deeds of Jesus are on human behavior, how we should treat each other and how we need God's help in order to succeed at this. There is very little theology in the teaching of Jesus, other than simple concepts like father and friend. He uses both nature and human situations to illustrate what he refers to as the "kingdom of heavens" (Greek ouranon means heavens plural) and "kingdom of God" (Greek Theou).

These may be the same thing. While many of his stories are assumed to be mere inventions for illustrative purposes, it could well be true that the stories Jesus tells are true stories about real people caught in various kinds of morally challenging and life defining situations. It appears obvious based on the four narratives, that Jesus knew a lot more about people and their real experiences than typically given credit for.

Much of the rest of what Jesus has to say is directed with much sarcasm and highly caustic remarks aimed at conservative orthodox religious leaders. Openly, directly and in their face, he is constantly publicly chastising them for their hypocrisy and burdening of the poor and average people with temple fees and forced adherence to useless vain traditions. That is, when he isn't otherwise openly condemning them for their greed, vanity and laziness and, for gravely misleading the common masses ("if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch"). If this sounds a lot like how modern-day Christian leaders act, that's because it is.

Other than the religious leaders noted above, Jesus condemns no one and though promoting extreme pacifism, he goes out of his way to befriend soldiers. Historians estimate that at least 40% of the people who Jesus befriended were LGBTQ folks. And yet, Jesus not only doesn't condemn them, he never mentions sexual orientation. He has nothing to say about helping the unborn, but a whole lot to say about helping the already born.

The entire message of Jesus focuses on loving and caring and being helpful and kind to the already born among us. And in particular, Jesus is concerned with helping the sick, the poor, immigrants, the deformed and disabled, foreign and otherwise unwanted people and anyone and everyone else who is marginalized by the wealthy, powerful, self-righteous and elite of human societies.

[historia]

There is no historical or other evidence that Jesus is the founder of either Christianity or any other religion.

That's funny. Where did Christianity come from then?

Much of what Jesus teaches agrees with modern human and civil rights theory

That's because modern ideas about human and civil rights were developed in countries heavily influenced by Christianity -- which apparently Jesus didn't found.

Due to the extreme bias of both orthodox religious people and secular historians and scholars, Jesus is rarely if ever viewed within the same context as public education, a very grave error on their part.

Ah, yes, the tried-and-true argument that everyone who has seriously studied an issue is wrong, and we should instead trust the opinions of some rando on the Internet. I for one always find this type of argument convincing.

Historians estimate that at least 40% of the people who Jesus befriended were LGBTQ folks.

I thought they were extremely biased.

The entire message of Jesus focuses on loving and caring and being helpful and kind to the already born among us. And in particular, Jesus is concerned with helping the sick, the poor, immigrants, the deformed and disabled, foreign and otherwise unwanted people and anyone and everyone else who is marginalized by the wealthy, powerful, self-righteous and elite of human societies.

Sounds like the Pope.

[Richard Aberdeen]

ANSWERS:

Christianity is an invention of people, just like Islam, Buddhism and every other religion. True religion is described in James 1:27, which isn't remotely the same as Christianity; there is no other religion approved by God, other than what is defined in James 1:27.

No, the reason why Jesus agrees with much of human and civil rights theory is because God has written his law on the hearts of humanity; our conscience also bearing witness, just like it says in Romans.

Regarding Jesus and education, we should go by the evidence, rather than trusting in vain religious tradition.

According to the Bible, we believe in God based on the evidence found in creation, faith "is the evidence of things not seen", faith involves action, not just belief and, we can know we belong to Jesus based on the evidence of his spirit working within us. Faith, as required by God, is based on evidence, not because anyone says so.

I never said that all historians are biased. Many historians go to great lengths to minimize bias. Nevertheless, there exists extreme bias regarding Jesus and the Bible, like I said.

No, it has nothing to do with the pope, who is a sinner just like the rest of us. Rather, it's just the obvious truth to anyone who has studied the four narratives of Jesus found in the New Testament. Jesus totally focuses on the already born.

[1213]

...Other than the religious leaders noted above, Jesus condemns no one and though promoting extreme pacifism, he goes out of his way to befriend soldiers. Historians estimate that at least 40% of the people who Jesus befriended were LGBTQ folks. And yet, Jesus not only doesn't condemn them, he never mentions sexual orientation. He has nothing to say about helping the unborn, but a whole lot to say about helping the already born.

The entire message of Jesus focuses on loving and caring and being helpful and kind to the already born among us. ..

How is aborting babies loving and caring? I think murdering babies is against what Jesus taught.

But, it is true that Jesus offered forgiveness. However, he also told:

“... From now on, sin no more.”
John 8:11

Everyone is welcome, but that does not mean it is ok to continue in sin. There needs to happen change in person and to get eternal life, people must be or become righteous, God's children.

If you are righteous, how could you say, it is ok to kill a baby, when he is still in the womb, but not ok, if he is out of the womb, when there is no other difference?

...That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Don’t marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’
John 3:3-7
But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God’s children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13
It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63
He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed: that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn’t commit sin, because his seed remains in him, and he can’t sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn’t do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn’t love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

[historia]

Christianity is an invention of people

Which people?

there is no other religion approved by God, other than what is defined in James 1:27.

Who told you the Epistle of James is authoritative for determining what is true religion?

Faith, as required by God, is based on evidence, not because anyone says so.

What evidence do you have to support that assertion?

No, the reason why Jesus agrees with much of human and civil rights theory is because God has written his law on the hearts of humanity

Then why didn't modern ideas of human and civil rights develop in the Muslim world, sub-Saharan Africa, China, or pre-Columbian America?

Modern ideas of human rights developed in Western Europe due to the influence of Christianity. This is widely recognized by historians. See, for example, Tom Holland's popular work Dominion.

Why should the rest of us believe you over historians?

Nevertheless, there exists extreme bias regarding Jesus and the Bible, like I said.

I see: because you said so.

What evidence do you have to support this assertion?

The entire message of Jesus focuses on loving and caring and being helpful and kind to the already born among us. And in particular, Jesus is concerned with helping the sick, the poor, immigrants, the deformed and disabled, foreign and otherwise unwanted people and anyone and everyone else who is marginalized by the wealthy, powerful, self-righteous and elite of human societies.

Sounds like the Pope.

No, it has nothing to do with the pope, who is a sinner just like the rest of us.

The pope being a sinner doesn't change the fact that he is saying the things you said is "the entire message of Jesus."

[Richard Aberdeen]

[Replying to 1213 in post #4]

I didn't say anything about abortion. Neither did he. A follower of anyone, by definition, is someone who focuses on what the leader says and does and ignores what the leader doesn't say or do. A follower of Jesus, by definition, is someone who focuses on helping the already born.

In Search of the Real Jesus
www.FreedomTracks.com/revolution.html

[1213]

...I didn't say anything about abortion....

Ok. My point was, I think the teachings of Jesus are also about helping the unborn and protecting the baby from being killed.

[Richard Aberdeen]

[Replying to historia in post #5]

The entire message of Jesus focuses on the already born is a fact. I just stated the fact, I'm not Catholic, nor do I listen to the pope. Jesus in the four accounts in the Bible does not say a word about the unborn.

[Ray the atheist]

[Replying to Richard Aberdeen in post #1]

" Jesus offers free salvation for sinners and is the founder of free quality education for the common masses. "
_____________________________________

I would qualify your two claims as highly debatable.

[lastdaysbeliever]

There is no historical or other evidence that Jesus is the founder of either Christianity or any other religion. Rather, from a fair historical perspective, Jesus offers free salvation for sinners and is the founder of free quality education for the common masses. Much of what Jesus teaches agrees with modern human and civil rights theory (which is exactly what one might expect from the true Messiah). Due to the extreme bias of both orthodox religious people and secular historians and scholars, Jesus is rarely if ever viewed within the same context as public education, a very grave error on their part.

Virtually the entire focus of the words and deeds of Jesus are on human behavior, how we should treat each other and how we need God's help in order to succeed at this. There is very little theology in the teaching of Jesus, other than simple concepts like father and friend. He uses both nature and human situations to illustrate what he refers to as the "kingdom of heavens" (Greek ouranon means heavens plural) and "kingdom of God" (Greek Theou).

These may be the same thing. While many of his stories are assumed to be mere inventions for illustrative purposes, it could well be true that the stories Jesus tells are true stories about real people caught in various kinds of morally challenging and life defining situations. It appears obvious based on the four narratives, that Jesus knew a lot more about people and their real experiences than typically given credit for.

Much of the rest of what Jesus has to say is directed with much sarcasm and highly caustic remarks aimed at conservative orthodox religious leaders. Openly, directly and in their face, he is constantly publicly chastising them for their hypocrisy and burdening of the poor and average people with temple fees and forced adherence to useless vain traditions. That is, when he isn't otherwise openly condemning them for their greed, vanity and laziness and, for gravely misleading the common masses ("if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch"). If this sounds a lot like how modern-day Christian leaders act, that's because it is.

Other than the religious leaders noted above, Jesus condemns no one and though promoting extreme pacifism, he goes out of his way to befriend soldiers. Historians estimate that at least 40% of the people who Jesus befriended were LGBTQ folks. And yet, Jesus not only doesn't condemn them, he never mentions sexual orientation. He has nothing to say about helping the unborn, but a whole lot to say about helping the already born.

The entire message of Jesus focuses on loving and caring and being helpful and kind to the already born among us. And in particular, Jesus is concerned with helping the sick, the poor, immigrants, the deformed and disabled, foreign and otherwise unwanted people and anyone and everyone else who is marginalized by the wealthy, powerful, self-righteous and elite of human societies.

Hello Richard,

I am not responding to your above quoted treatise, specifically, but to be completely transparent I did briefly scan your linked site as offered.

That said, so I can understand your religious position more clearly, perhaps you could offer a clear, concise statement on your personal belief system, and your qualifications as an apologist? I only ask given you are making authoritative religious claims about the ekklesia Jesus founded. I appreciate that.

Respectfully,

ldb

*edited to correct spelling and punctuation.