Where's God?

[POI]

Does he pop up in my dreams? Is he the one whom produces my goose-bumps? Is He the one giving me my "moral compass"? Is he only experienced during deep meditation? If I have enough faith, will he appear to me? But seriously. Where is he? I was a Christian for decades. I earnestly prayed for him to reach me, to no avail.

For debate: Why have I not felt his presence?

A) I never tried hard enough; lack faith
B) He does not want to reveal Himself to me (yet)
C) Evil is blocking the request(s)
D) I'm too dumb to realize he's reaching me
E) He's not really there at all <- Current conclusion

Do not answer yet. This topic has spawned from another unrelated topic. I decided to devote this large topic to itself. Below are some premises:

P1) does god exist? (dunno)
P2) does god want a relationship with all, especially the ones who seek him (apparently so)
P3) is god capable of communicating (apparently so)
P4) can god communicate his message in a way in which the recipient could no longer deny (apparently so)
P5) have I asked for this communication earnestly and repetitively (YES)
P6) does the Bible state god answers the call to all who seek him (YES)

At best, god has opted not to contact me YET. And this would be after decades of actively seeking him. Without any emotion, I'm logically left with 2 options.

A) God is not really there <- Current conclusion.
B) God is not adhering to his promise (yet).

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to POI in post #1]

@POI, why do you need him to contact you directly? At the time of Moses, the people of Israel were terrified when God spoke to them the ten commandments with his own voice. As a result, they asked him to report to them God's words instead of his direct contact. God then sent prophets and apostles to them. Then, he sent the second Person of God to his people, who added to his deity full humanity. We have the record of all those "sendings" in the Bible, which God inspired to show himself to us. You will find him there.

Exo 20:18  Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid and trembled, and they stood far off 
Exo 20:19  and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.” 

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 

2Pe 1:16  For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 
2Pe 1:17  For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” 
2Pe 1:18  we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 
2Pe 1:19  And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 
2Pe 1:20  knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 
2Pe 1:21  For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 

[POI]

@POI, why do you need him to contact you directly?

I would think that if (Jesus/god) wants a relationship with all who seek him, it would be logical that he speaks to all who seek him. Instead playing the perpetual absentee garners not much of a two-way relationship. At this point, after decades of silence, I just assume what I assume in the OP. See premise 4) and beyond.

At the time of Moses, the people of Israel were terrified when God spoke to them the ten commandments with his own voice. As a result, they asked him to report to them God's words instead of his direct contact. God then sent prophets and apostles to them. Then, he sent the second Person of God to his people, who added to his deity full humanity. We have the record of all those "sendings" in the Bible, which God inspired to show himself to us. You will find him there.

Many, even including in this forum, claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus. This means that Jesus apparently has the ability to communicate without terrifying them.

1) Are you saying that Jesus does not have the ability to communicate with his loved ones without making them poop their pants?
2) Are you also saying that the ones who claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus are mistaken?
3) Are you also saying that (Jesus/god) only speaks to prophets, to then relay his message(s) to the rest of us?

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to POI in post #292]

No, @POI, I'm saying that he wants a personal relationship with us through our prayers and with his guidance AND that he reveals himself with the Father and the Spirit through his Word, the Bible.

[POI]

[Replying to BruceLeiter in post #293]

So, (now) you are instead saying that contact from Him is not terrifying to most?

[William]

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to POI in post #294]

I can't speak for or against "most people," @POI, but if we trust in Jesus as the way to the Father's approval, it's not terrifying. The Israelites were mostly unbelievers, since God let them die in the desert, but I don't judge anyone. God will.

[POI]

[Replying to BruceLeiter in post #296]

It's as if you didn't even read the original post? First, you speak about how God won't speak because some are terrified. You then went on to issue another excuse, alluding to how the proof has already been provided, via the stories from the Bible. And then you later say he does communicate, to believers. Here is part of my original post directly below. (Please re-load and try again):

I was a Christian for decades. I earnestly prayed for him to reach me, to no avail.

For debate: Why have I not felt his presence?

A) I never tried hard enough; lack faith
B) He does not want to reveal Himself to me (yet)
C) Evil is blocking the request(s)
D) I'm too dumb to realize he's reaching me
E) He's not really there at all <- Current conclusion

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to POI in post #297]

I don't why you haven't felt God's presence, @POI. Therefore, I can't choose among your five choices. However, you are on my daily prayer list, if you want me to pray for you.

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to POI in post #297]

I did not say that because some people are terrified, @POI, God doesn't speak. I said that God chose to speak through his prophets and preachers instead of directly in connection with the people's Sinai experience. Thus, you can find him speaking to you through his Word, the Bible; in small groups who discuss the Bible; and through preachers and teachers who are faithfully proclaiming his Word.

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 
2Ti 4:1  I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 
2Ti 4:2  preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 
2Ti 4:3  For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 
2Ti 4:4  and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 

[POI]

[Replying to POI in post #297]

I don't why you haven't felt God's presence, @POI.

While applying Occam's Razor, option E) is to be chosen; being this selection provides the fewest additional necessary assumptions.

you are on my daily prayer list, if you want me to pray for you.

Is it going to work this time? I've already had countless earnest believers tell me the exact same thing as you are doing here now, and yet, here I am, decades later, 100% devoid of any felt external spiritual presence and/or contact from any (Jesus/god/spirit).