"Take my word for it, or his, or this book"

[Zzyzx]

Most of us probably know better than to believe everything said or written. If someone tells us they can fly by flapping their arms, our response is likely disbelief and a request that they ‘show me’. If they refuse to demonstrate or fail in flapping, we regard their claim as false. Agreed?

If a person claims to have come back to life after being dead for days none of us are likely to believe the claim unless it could be verified. Right?

If someone writes that fifty years ago a long-dead person came back to life and flew away into the sky, what would be your / our likely reaction? Would we be convinced if they say ‘many saw him’?

What would it take to convince us that the tale was true?

[POI]

are the scholars who are not Christian guilty of cognitive dissonance when they tell us we can know the earliest followers of Jesus (including the apostles) could not have possibly made the reports of the resurrection up?

I addressed this in the first response you glossed over. Please re-read. Hint hint.. I mentioned Paul.

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to POI in post #141]

Listen, I do not mind if you qualify your answer, but I really need to hear a yes, or a no concerning the question of the scholars being guilty of cognitive dissonance when they tell us we can know the early followers (including the apostles) could not have possibly made the reports of the resurrection up? Once I get such an answer, I will be more than happy to move on.

[POI]

[Replying to POI in post #141]

Listen, I do not mind if you qualify your answer, but I really need to hear a yes, or a no concerning the question of the scholars being guilty of cognitive dissonance when they tell us we can know the early followers (including the apostles) could not have possibly made the reports of the resurrection up? Once I get such an answer, I will be more than happy to move on.

LOL! I'm sorry I do not fall neatly into your apologetic script. I see your question as malformed. I could just as easily argue that secular scholars argue that they have no clue who actually saw or believed what, being we have no deposed eyewitnesses, which also even includes Paul. You see RealJack, you shot yourself in the foot, long ago, when you harkened your lawyer buddy, speaking about eyewitnesses and the like... Might I suggest you instead stop cleaving to fallacious argumentation, (i.e.) in an "appeal to authority" listed above, and instead go after the actual facts -- a term you like to throw around a lot BTW. Well, it's a fact that we have conflicting accounts, and they differ in a way which is irreconcilable. Meaning, for example:

a) Mark is right and Luke is wrong?
b) vice versa?
c) both are false?

You are stuck selecting between a) or b), while rejecting the other, for some likely crap reason(s), where I, on the other hand, can just discard both as both being religious propaganda, as we know rotting bodies remain rotting.

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to POI in post #143]

Yeah, this is a real LOL moment. Anyone who may be reading this clearly knows you are avoiding answering the question, and they also know exactly why you are avoiding the question. So then, allow me to attempt to ask in another way. Can we know by reading the material contained in the NT that it is not a possibility that the reports of the resurrection were made up, as the overwhelming majority of the scholars admit?

This is not an appeal to the scholars. In other words, this is not to say, "the scholars say it, I believe it, and that settles it." The question is, are the scholars correct in that it is an impossibility for the reports of the resurrection to have been made up?

[POI]

Can we know by reading the material contained in the NT that it is not a possibility that the reports of the resurrection were made up, as the overwhelming majority of the scholars admit?

Yet, again, we cannot know! None of these so-called witnesses were vetted, to even the lowest of standards. Nor do we know who wrote the Gospels, which gives us no starting point. Yet again, appealing to fallacious reasoning, (to the bold above), is a classic example of appealing to authority/majority, and is doing your 'argument' no favors.

This is not an appeal to the scholars. In other words, this is not to say,

By definition, it is still an appeal to authority/majority, which are fallacious.

The question is, are the scholars correct in that it is an impossibility for the reports of the resurrection to have been made up?

This cannot be verified. Because, again, there is no way to know, as we have no true starting point. Hence, your question is defective, and an unresolvable starting point.

So, can we now cease with the parsley, and instead address the meat-and-potatoes, for which you have avoided for years now?

[tam]

Peace to you all,

[Replying to Realworldjack in post #132]

You can answer all I have said, but I really want to stay focused upon this.

What is confusing about this?

Christ invites people to come to Him. People who are weary and burdened. He will give them rest.

What exactly do you think needs to be interpreted about that?

What did Jesus mean, and does this passage apply to you and me today?

It applies to all who are weary and burdened.

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened."

So yes, it applies to people today.


And He continues,

Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


Come to me.
Learn from me.
I will give you rest.

Come to Him. Learn from Him.
That applies to people today as well.


Just like this invitation from Revelation applies to any who thirst, and any who wish:

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.


Peace again,
servant to the Household of God, and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[OneJack]

Peace to you all,

[Replying to Realworldjack in post #132]

You can answer all I have said, but I really want to stay focused upon this.

What is confusing about this?

Christ invites people to come to Him. People who are weary and burdened. He will give them rest.

What exactly do you think needs to be interpreted about that?

What did Jesus mean, and does this passage apply to you and me today?

It applies to all who are weary and burdened.

"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened."

So yes, it applies to people today.


And He continues,

Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.


Come to me.
Learn from me.
I will give you rest.

Come to Him. Learn from Him.
That applies to people today as well.


Just like this invitation from Revelation applies to any who thirst, and any who wish:

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.


Peace again,
servant to the Household of God, and a slave of Christ,
tammy

What, specifically, is that 'rest for your soul,' tam?

[William]

[Replying to OneJack in post #147]

What, specifically, is that 'rest for your soul'

See "POI" as an example of a restless soul. Does that help answer your question?

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #147]

What, specifically, is that 'rest for your soul'

See "POI" as an example of a restless soul. Does that help answer your question?

He wants God to give in to his desire and wisdom; I don’t know the technical term for that. Would ‘restless soul’ fit him in that regard? It seems not to fit into him, in my perception.

[William]

[Replying to OneJack in post #147]

What, specifically, is that 'rest for your soul'

See "POI" as an example of a restless soul. Does that help answer your question?

He wants God to give in to his desire and wisdom; I don’t know the technical term for that. Would ‘restless soul’ fit him in that regard? It seems not to fit into him, in my perception.

The "answer" I offered was simply a suggestion.

What do you think a "restless soul" might be describing?

A restless soul is a person perpetually seeking change, adventure, or deeper meaning, often feeling dissatisfied with their current circumstances, routines, or location. Driven by a constant need for something "more," they may change homes, careers, or relationships frequently. It signifies an inner, insatiable hunger and inability to settle.