Exodus 3, who was in the burning bush?

[placebofactor]

Exodus 3:2, King James Bible, “The angel (messenger) of the LORD appeared to him (Moses) in a flame of fire from within the bush.”

Question, “Did the angel of the Lord appear to Moses as he was, or AS a flame of fire?” Answer: He appeared “in a flame of fire,” not “as a flame of fire.” He is present within the flame; the flame is the environment of the appearance, not the angel’s form.

Question: Is the LORD (YHWH) in verse 4 the “angel of the LORD” in verse 2? And in Verse 4, “When the LORD (YHWH) saw that he turned aside to look, God (Elohim) called to him from the midst of the bush.”
Question: Is the LORD and God in verse 4 the same person as the angel of the LORD in verse 2?

The text begins with “the angel of the LORD appeared…”, but when the voice speaks, it is simply “God” and “the LORD.” There was no change of scene, no new character introduced, no explanation. The same presence in the bush is now called “YHWH” and “Elohim.”

I understand that the God and LORD of verse 4 are the same person as the angel of the LORD in verse 2. And yes, each title carries a different theological emphasis.

As the Angel of the LORD, this is God manifested.
As the LORD, “YHWH,” this is his covenant identity, and,
As God, “Elohim,” it speaks of his authority and power. The narrative uses all three to give a fuller picture of who is speaking from the bush.

As for the name “I Am” in verse 14, it sums it all up. “I Am” means God will be what he will be." He will be the angel of the LORD delivering a message. As the LORD, he is speaking of his identity, faithfulness, and that he is and will be. And as God, he is the Creator, Sovereign, and Judge?

As the “I Am,” it sums up all three titles? “I Am” (Ehyeh) in Exodus 3:14 expresses God’s freedom, constancy, and self-determining nature. “He will be what he will be.” He will be whatever the situation requires; he will manifest Himself however He chooses because he is not and will not be defined by man.

Strictly limiting ourselves to what the Bible teaches, what do we know? John 1:18, “No man hath seen God (the Father) at any time.”
John 5:37, “Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.” These two verses refer to the Father, as the context makes clear.

So, the Bible teaches that the Father has never been seen, and his voice never heard. So what is the logical conclusion we can draw? Who appeared and spoke to Moses in the bush? And who else holds all the titles of LORD, God, angel of the LORD, and the I Am? The only other divine person the scriptures identify as God, as LORD, as the angel of the LORD, and the I Am, is the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #10]

Amen and amen, @Placebofactor!!

[placebofactor]

...KJV Exodus 3:2-4, "The angel of the LORD appeared unto him (Moses) in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush:" Verse 4, "When the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him (Moses) out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses."

Now, how many do you think were in the (MIDST) of the flaming bush?...

By what is said, only the angel appeared in the fire. God's voice was heard out of the midst of the bush. It does not necessary mean God Himself was in the bush. It could mean:
a) the angel spoke the words of God.
b) God some other way let His voice be heard so that it appeared to come out of the bush.

Why send the angel of the LORD if the LORD himself is going to speak? Do you understand what a messenger is? He represents the one who sent him. His words are the words of the one who sent him. Why do you have such a difficult time understanding simple basics?

1213, Will you at least admit that Jesus Christ is the Creator of Genesis 1? This is supported by John 1:3, "All things were made by him (Jesus); and without him was not anything made that was made." Also, by Colossians 1:16, "For by him (Jesus) were all things created,"

With that said, let's take a look at the voice coming from the burning bush. Exodus 3:6, God said to Moses, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." If Jesus Christ is the Creator, then he is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Now, with that, John 5:37 states, "You have neither heard his (the Father's) voice at any time, nor seen his shape." Since Moses sees and hears the One in the burning bush, the Bible itself rules out the Father as the person speaking to Moses.

So, without adding anything external, the One in the burning bush is the Son of God who bears the same name, titles, and characteristics.

In Exodus 3:14, God said unto Moses, "I AM, that I AM;" the title "I Am" sums it all up: God will be what he will be." He will be the angel of the LORD delivering a message; he will be the LORD = his identity, his faithfulness, and the one who is and will be. And as God, he is the Creator, Sovereign, and Judge.

He will be whatever the situation requires, he will manifest Himself however He chooses, he is not defined by Moses, Pharaoh, Israel, or anyone else.

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to 1213 in post #2]

Let's look at the verses closely, @1213:

Exo 3:2  And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed. 
Exo 3:3  And Moses said, “I will turn aside to see this great sight, why the bush is not burned.” 
Exo 3:4  When the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” 
Exo 3:5  Then he said, “Do not come near; take your sandals off your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.” 
Exo 3:6  And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God. 

1. Both the angel of the LORD and God are in the flame in the bush (verses 2 and 4).

2. Apparently, the flame in the bush is really God's brightness, which is called his glory in the Bible.

3. Both names for God, Yahweh and Elohim, are used to describe the Person in the fire (verse 4).

4. The description "the angel of the Yahweh" in the Old Testament is closely identified with God himself.

5. The conclusion I draw is that the Person in the fire who talks to Moses is the second Person of God, who is the first Person's Messenger and who later took on human flesh, though perfect, and is the Person who later added humanity to his deity as Jesus.

[OneJack]

[Replying to 1213 in post #2]

Let's look at the verses closely, @1213:

Exo 3:2  And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed. 
Exo 3:3  And Moses said, “I will turn aside to see this great sight, why the bush is not burned.” 
Exo 3:4  When the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” 
Exo 3:5  Then he said, “Do not come near; take your sandals off your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.” 
Exo 3:6  And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God. 

1. Both the angel of the LORD and God are in the flame in the bush (verses 2 and 4).

2. Apparently, the flame in the bush is really God's brightness, which is called his glory in the Bible.

3. Both names for God, Yahweh and Elohim, are used to describe the Person in the fire (verse 4).

4. The description "the angel of the Yahweh" in the Old Testament is closely identified with God himself.

5. The conclusion I draw is that the Person in the fire who talks to Moses is the second Person of God, who is the first Person's Messenger and who later took on human flesh, though perfect, and is the Person who later added humanity to his deity as Jesus.

You needed to witness the Lord speaking to you personally to fully understand that the Lord uses manifestation to speak to anyone, as in the Mt. Sinai encounter of Moses with God. The angel of the Lord was the manifestation that God used to speak with Moses.

[Capbook]

[Replying to 1213 in post #2]

Let's look at the verses closely, @1213:

Exo 3:2  And the angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed. 
Exo 3:3  And Moses said, “I will turn aside to see this great sight, why the bush is not burned.” 
Exo 3:4  When the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” 
Exo 3:5  Then he said, “Do not come near; take your sandals off your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.” 
Exo 3:6  And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God. 

1. Both the angel of the LORD and God are in the flame in the bush (verses 2 and 4).

2. Apparently, the flame in the bush is really God's brightness, which is called his glory in the Bible.

3. Both names for God, Yahweh and Elohim, are used to describe the Person in the fire (verse 4).

4. The description "the angel of the Yahweh" in the Old Testament is closely identified with God himself.

5. The conclusion I draw is that the Person in the fire who talks to Moses is the second Person of God, who is the first Person's Messenger and who later took on human flesh, though perfect, and is the Person who later added humanity to his deity as Jesus.

You needed to witness the Lord speaking to you personally to fully understand that the Lord uses manifestation to speak to anyone, as in the Mt. Sinai encounter of Moses with God. The angel of the Lord was the manifestation that God used to speak with Moses.

Yes, OneJack, as the Father is invisible and unknowable, Jesus made Him known and be seen.

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to OneJack in post #14]

God reveals himself to me through the amazing creation that he has created and maintained, through other people, and through his Word, the Bible, @OneJack. Psalm 19 says that truth well:

Psa 19:1  To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. 
Psa 19:2  Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. 
Psa 19:3  There is no speech, nor are there words, whose voice is not heard. 
Psa 19:4  Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, 
Psa 19:5  which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy. 
Psa 19:6  Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them, and there is nothing hidden from its heat. 
Psa 19:7  The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple; 
Psa 19:8  the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes; 
Psa 19:9  the fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the LORD are true, and righteous altogether. 
Psa 19:10  More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb. 
Psa 19:11  Moreover, by them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward. 
Psa 19:12  Who can discern his errors? Declare me innocent from hidden faults. 
Psa 19:13  Keep back your servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me! Then I shall be blameless, and innocent of great transgression. 
Psa 19:14  Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O LORD, my rock and my redeemer. 

In addition, he gives me his direction by putting ideas into my head for my writing career in retirement from church ministry.

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #14]

God reveals himself to me through the amazing creation that he has created and maintained, through other people, and through his Word, the Bible, @OneJack. Psalm 19 says that truth well:

Psa 19:1  To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. 
Psa 19:2  Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. 
Psa 19:3  There is no speech, nor are there words, whose voice is not heard. 
Psa 19:4  Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, 
Psa 19:5  which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy. 
Psa 19:6  Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them, and there is nothing hidden from its heat. 
Psa 19:7  The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple; 
Psa 19:8  the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes; 
Psa 19:9  the fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the LORD are true, and righteous altogether. 
Psa 19:10  More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb. 
Psa 19:11  Moreover, by them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward. 
Psa 19:12  Who can discern his errors? Declare me innocent from hidden faults. 
Psa 19:13  Keep back your servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me! Then I shall be blameless, and innocent of great transgression. 
Psa 19:14  Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O LORD, my rock and my redeemer. 

In addition, he gives me his direction by putting ideas into my head for my writing career in retirement from church ministry.

The bible is not God, who is the Almighty, real and forever living God.

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to OneJack in post #17]

@OneJack, I have never said that the Bible IS God; but as Paul says, God breathed it in the sense that, by the power of the Holy Spirit, the prophets and apostles wrote true teachings and history that reveal to us the great God that he is and his involvement in HIStory.

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 

2Pe 1:19  And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 
2Pe 1:20  knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 
2Pe 1:21  For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #17]

@OneJack, I have never said that the Bible IS God; but as Paul says, God breathed it in the sense that, by the power of the Holy Spirit, the prophets and apostles wrote true teachings and history that reveal to us the great God that he is and his involvement in HIStory.

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 
2Ti 3:17  that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. 

2Pe 1:19  And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 
2Pe 1:20  knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 
2Pe 1:21  For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 

The Lord Jesus Christ defines the phrase 'inspired by God' or 'God-breathed' as that which is 'allowed by God to be written,' no more, no less. Please refrain from overmagnifying that phrase to mean something other than what the Lord has said. Also, Paul's opinion in 2Tim 3:16-17 is not in agreement with the Lord's definition of the scriptures as testimonies to Him; He didn't specify that the scriptures are to be used for such purposes as Paul defines. The Lord commanded Peter and Paul to remind all people to come to the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation and eternal life, not to preach the scriptures to them, as you seem to emphasize above.

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to OneJack in post #19]

@OneJack, so, the choice is between your false Jesus and the Apostle Paul, who persecuted the church when he was known as Saul and who was dramatically transformed to become a preacher of the true Jesus. I choose Paul rather than the one who always disagrees with the Bible. You have not yet answered and responded to Psalms 19 and 119, which also lift up the Scriptures as our basis for faith.