How the Bible fails

[Compassionist]

1. Astronomy & Cosmology: pre-scientific mythology

The Bible reflects an ancient Near Eastern cosmology, not hidden advanced knowledge:

Flat or dome-covered Earth (the firmament)

Waters above the sky

Sun, moon, and stars placed inside the firmament

Earth established before stars

Light existing before light sources

This isn’t “metaphor misunderstood later.”
It’s exactly what you’d expect from pre-astronomical humans with no telescopes, no physics, no cosmology.

A being who created galaxies would not accidentally endorse Bronze Age sky myths.

2. Physics: magical causation and category errors

Biblical physics routinely violates conservation laws, thermodynamics, and basic causality:

Matter appearing without physical mechanism

Instantaneous global floods

Heat, light, and motion without sources

Supernatural suspension of physical regularities without constraints

These aren’t exceptions explained by deeper laws.
They are storytelling devices, indistinguishable from myth.

3. Biology: creationism and biological impossibilities

The Bible gets biology wrong in structural ways:

Fixed “kinds” instead of common descent

Humans formed separately from animals

No understanding of genetics, evolution, extinction, deep time

Global bottlenecks that would have destroyed biodiversity

This is not a matter of missing details.
It reflects zero awareness of how life actually works.

4. Ethics: tribal morality, not universal compassion

Biblical ethics are deeply inconsistent and often morally indefensible:

Genocide endorsed

Slavery regulated, not abolished

Women treated as property

Children punished for ancestral sins

Infinite punishment for finite “belief errors”

These are not moral heights we failed to reach.
They are moral baselines we have since outgrown.

The best ethical moments in the Bible come from humans pushing against its own framework, not from divine command.

5. History: legendary development, not eyewitness rigor

The Bible fails basic historical standards:

Anonymous authorship

Decades-to-centuries-late composition

Theological agendas driving narrative

Contradictory accounts

No contemporary corroboration for central miracles

What we see is exactly what we see in myth formation everywhere else:
oral tradition → embellishment → canonization → dogma.

6. The pattern matters more than any single error

Any one mistake could be excused.

But the Bible fails:

astronomy,

physics,

biology,

ethics,

and history,

systematically, in the same direction, at the same level, with the same cultural fingerprints.

That pattern is diagnostic.

It looks exactly like what it is: a collection of human texts written by sincere but ignorant people trying to explain the world before science existed.

7. Why this matters morally

I care about reducing suffering and death, not about defending meaning or tradition.

That’s crucial.

Texts that:

misdescribe reality,

misassign blame,

moralize ignorance,

and sanctify error,

don’t just fail intellectually — they cause harm.

Religious certainty built on false premises has:

justified violence,

delayed medicine,

stigmatized illness,

excused cruelty,

and obstructed progress.

Rejecting that isn’t nihilism.
It’s ethical seriousness.

[1213]

You really don't understand me

I think I did, but maybe it is irrelevant. Do you think you understood what I said in this debate?

...We are all prisoners of causality.

Sorry, I don't believe so.

[Hawkins]

Apparently humans lost the big picture and came up with strange ideas which are more often irrelevant.

Both Eden and Earth are sandboxes emulating the final Heaven where the high intelligence angels interact with the low intelligence humans. In both places humans are utterly defeated in terms of might and intelligence. In Eden humans were driven out of God's current dwelling place. On Earth all mankind without exception are captive under Law (that's why all need Jesus without exception. While Eden illustrates where the issue is, that is, how low intelligence humans are fooled by the crafty snake, Earth represents a resolution. Earth is like an examination hall, humans need to take 2 examinations, namely, Law and Faith. Even though Law is a must subject humans are doomed to fail (if only this Law examination is available, humans shall be destroyed as a whole). Humans can have a second examination, which is Faith, due to Jesus' self-sacrifice such that humans can be legally/lawfully judged with Covenant instead of Law (angels will be judged by Law). In effect, Jesus offsets the Law such that fairness is maintained with angels judged by Law while humans by Covenant.

Earth as its intended setup, is about a spiritual war on how Satan and his angels fight to keep humans captive, that is, first make them breaking the Law then make them losing their faith. Satan and his angels somehow do this at all cost. On the other hand, the resolution provided by God is that Faith remains the only weapon for humans to stand a chance to break the captivity to be saved, as they are doomed to fail in terms of might and intelligence (Isaiah 14:17). Satan will do whatever within his power (and allowed by means of how free will works) to continue to keep humans captive while the only window humans can stand a chance is through faith (vs. intelligence and strength).

So all matters is, God conveys a theology (of salvation) through the maximum capability of His chosen people. At the same time, Satan tries his best to stop God's plan. Satan's measures include corrupting the culture of Canaan and hijacking the Canaanites to attempt to eradicate the Jews of to contaminate their religion (such that the theology won't convey), include corrupting the cultures of earthly peoples (say by introducing different false major religions in the same way as how Satan corrupted Canaan), include by corrupting humans for the "most moral" humans to establish secular systems such as slavery serving as a distraction if the Jews choose to fight it in full effort (instead of conveying the theology). God didn't fall for it, His bottom line is to disallow the Jews to enslave each other as fighting the establishments set up by the most moral humans will be a futile effort and distraction intended by Satan.

At the same time, Satan never stops fooling and blinding humans from knowing simple truth such as what the maximum capability of humankind is in terms of conveying a full theology. That's why humans never notice this simple fact; Among all the civilizations and nations ever existed on the surface of Earth, only the Chinese and the Jews can have a rather full set of history. This means (Satan doesn't want you to know though) first, humans literally lack the ability to write, to keep and to convey history. Second, God has to choose between Israel and China for His theology (of salvation) to convey. All other human histories are broken (possibly another effort from Satan and his angels while blinding you from noticing this simple fact). This says how difficult it is for a small ethnicity (Israel) to write, to keep and to convey a full version of theology. Moreover, it's not a coincidence that the Chinese history is defined by its canonization and so is the Jewish history (Satan blinded you from reckoning the significance of canonization unless you compare the only two human histories, that is, the Chinese one and the Jewish one).

You overestimated the maximum capability of humankind in terms of how history is written. A valid testimony relies on full effort of full capability of the Jews disregarding their limited ability on scientifically comprehending the world, that is, whether the Jews took Earth as flat or a dome or not is irrelevant (God would correct them on occasions, say, it's described that how earth is suspending on nothing - Job 26:7).

In a nutshell, God's theology of salvation is conveyed in the Jews' full effort which represents the maximum capability of humankind, making the Bible a valid human testimony in the Court of Heaven such that humans can be legally judged accordingly. At the same time, whatever situations the OP mentioned only represent a good examination content of Faith. The more difficult Satan making the examination is, the more precious are those who can pass the examination and to be saved. That's what God wants.

[RBD]

If “denying being a myth” made something true, then every religious text that makes that denial would be automatically validated

Bad habit to read into things, that aren't there.

The point is that no myth denies it's own mythology. Homer never disclaims that his accounts are not myth and fable.

It only means the Bible is not myth. It doesn't prove it's a true record.

Not when a circle is a sphere.

The Hebrew word “chug” means circle or horizon. It does not mean sphere.

False. It can be sphere in context. At the time, without proof, it could be taken either way. Today, anyone knows it means sphere.

If it only meant flat, then there could not be used for flat at any time. Shatach never means sphere.

Num 11:32: The Israelites spread (shatakh) the quails around (sabib) the camp. Sabib is another word for flat or spherical circle and circuit. In Num 11, it must mean flat circuit. In Eccl 1:6, it can mean spherical circuit of winds.

A tent covers the whole body, including a sphere.

The “stretched out like a tent” imagery matches standard Ancient Near Eastern cosmology, where the sky is depicted as a solid dome spread over the earth.

Yes, metaphor can apply to many shapes. But the imagery used matches the cultural cosmology of the time —

And a reasonable cosmological description today, minus any flat earth connotation, which also is not specified in the Bible.

Only ancient and flat earth cosmologists would presume it that way, such as yourself. I never did even as child, because I never was an ancient cosmologist nor flat earther. If you were raised that way, and still cling to it, that's your own personal problem, not the Bible's.

That interpretation is only suggestive between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 itself. Later toward the end of the Book, it's confirmed in 2 Peter 3.

Reading later interpretations back into earlier texts is theological development — not evidence of scientific foresight.

Dismissing later clarification is literary deconstruction of the Book as a whole — not evidence of objective hindsight.

Water activity on two known planets and one moon, makes it an extraterrestrial deluge.

No, it does not.

Yes it does.

Localized ancient water activity on Mars or Europa does not equal a universal supernatural flood covering the cosmos.

It makes it extraterrestrial dry river beds on the moon and planet covered by water. It suggests the same for the cosmos, without confirmation.

That is a category leap. “Water exists elsewhere” is not evidence of a biblical flood. It is evidence that water chemistry operates across planetary systems.

This is a categorical denial. It is evidence that water left dry river beds on the moon and planet.

Another lie about the text. Just 'raqui' no 'be'.

Genesis 1:17 in Hebrew reads “be-raqia ha-shamayim” — literally “in the expanse of the heavens.”

False. No Torah text includes prefix for raqia.

Genesis is a basic revelation of what happened, not a scientific journal.

That concession is important.

Only for a scientist looking for specific science of ancient texts. Not for anyone looking for a basic framework of the heaven and earth's beginning:

Heb 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

If Genesis is not a scientific account, then it cannot be used as evidence of hidden advanced cosmology.

There is no hidden cosmology offered, but each part plainly framed.

The only hidden cosmology is conspiracy theorists looking for a cosmology not plainly framed.

That is the Creator's revelation...

That is a theological claim, not an evidential argument.

It's the Bible Creator's revelation, not a scientific manual for every cosmological detail.

If you want a science manual, look elsewhere.

[RBD]

[Replying to RBD in post #38]

Since morality is imperfect, then it cannot be evaluated as perfect righteousness, and cannot judge perfect righteousness.

This argument defeats itself.

If human morality is incapable of evaluating “perfect righteousness,” then humans are equally incapable of recognizing it, identifying it, or affirming it.

Been there and done this with you on another thread. On this thread, I just insert the conclusion for your argument repeated elsewhere.

Same argument, same conclusion.

Do you really rewrite all this stuff each time, or do you copy and paste? Not accusing, just curious.

[RBD]

[Replying to RBD in post #37]

Evolution within a species is a verified process in every detail. Interspecies evolution is an unproven theory extrapolated from inner-species evolution.

This distinction between “within species” and “between species” is artificial.

In origin and evolution of the species, it's everything. You are either a copy and paste layman, that doesn't know the different arguments. Or, you are playing ignorant.

If Darwin had only titled his work, "Evolution of the species", then it would have been an exhaustive and inarguable. With his pioneering work, evolution within a species has been proven in fossils and biology.

On the Origin of Species is an unproven ideological challenge to creation of the species, which is the only reason it caused such a stir, not only theologically, but also scientifically.

There is no micro, nor macro proof of one species gradually and increasingly evolving into a wholly new species, especially not any biological life originating from inorganic matter. All that remains is a bloated worldwide education and cottage industry of theories, explanations, similarities, and fossil hybrids still looking for incremental connection.

Speciation is simply accumulated genetic change plus reproductive isolation. We have directly observed speciation events in plants, insects, fish, and laboratory populations. Once reproductive isolation occurs, you now have two species.

And it never does from one apple tree to an orange tree, nor a fish to a bird.

You don't show the proven incremental evidence, because it's not there. And if you trot out the usually tired non-proving hybrids, and biological similarities studies. Then I'll ignore it. Especially any links to read 'proof' that's not there.

All it takes is two classic examples of fraudulent promises that do not deliver the goods:

1. One sight claiming the big bang is proven fact, and in the middle of expansion proof, with follow-on retraction theories, is the statement that there is no actual factual proof of the event. (But they'll keep looking, so long as they get paid to.)

2. An evolutionist claims that there are no missing links in evolutionary theory, as though it applied to interspecies evolution, such as primate to man. He only confirms standard evolutionary fact within a species, both in fossil record and in biological evidence.

The first is a lying declaration. The 2nd is a deceitful implication. (And both want to be paid for it.)

There is no biological wall where “microevolution” suddenly stops working.

There is no fossil nor biological incrementalism of interspecies evolution, that ever starts working through the solid walls, that remain in tact.

Saying that evolution is proven fact, is true. Implying that interspecies evolution is a proven fact, is a lie.

Common descent is supported by independent, converging lines of evidence:

• Fossil succession in ordered strata

• Genetic phylogenetic trees that independently converge on the same branching pattern

Ecological Parallelism of the same trees. No crossover from apple to orange, or from apple to non apple.

• Endogenous retroviruses shared at identical genomic locations

ERV mutations, not fish becoming birds.

• Human chromosome 2 fusion (matching two separate ape chromosomes)

One chromosome to completely separating all people from all primates. The power of one chromosome, not an insignificant dismissal.

• Observed speciation events

Within species events.

These are not “similarity arguments.”

Chromosome similarity is.

So close, yet so far awayyy

They are pattern-based, testable predictions.

Within species and mutations and ERV effects, proven fact. With interspecies evolution, testable predictions never proven fact.

No single class of species on earth has ever been proven to transition into another different class.

There was never a moment when a reptile suddenly gave birth to a bird. What occurred was gradual modification over millions of generations:

Exactly. There is no single fossil evidence at the end of a long incremental chain of evolution, where the fish becomes a bird.

It's the mathematical failure of interspecies evolutionary theory: If there is no point of incremental conclusion, then there is no evolutionary conclusion from old fish to new bird.

Not to mention, there are no points of gradual change from a fish even close to a bird.

Hybrid creation in theory is more logical with the facts, than the never proven theory of modification over millions of generations.

We have fossils showing feathered non-avian dinosaurs. We have transitional limb structures. We have transitional skulls and teeth.

We have singular hybrids, with theorized transitions.

If the incremental transition from the fish to the hybrid to the bird were available, then it would have been published, like that of single species evolution, and ended any debate.

In the meantime Lucy is still looking for a Ken to mate with.

Evolution predicts gradients, not sudden leaps.

Created hybrids do, being without the theoretical gradual modification evidence

There is never a single transitioned fossil between one species and another.

That misunderstands how evolution works.

This once again, only proves you copy and paste evolutionary things without studying them in detail, or you are doing as others, and trying to deceitfully mesh single species evolution into unproven theoretical inter species evolution.

Every organism is transitional between its ancestors and its descendants.

Duh. Modern apple trees are not the same as ancient apple trees.

Tiktaalik shows a mixture of fish and tetrapod features:
• Fish scales and gills
• Limb-like bones capable of weight support

Archaeopteryx shows:
• Dinosaur teeth and tail
• Feathers and flight structures

Ambulocetus shows:
• Functional walking limbs
• Early whale ear structures

These are not “hybrids.” They are exactly what gradual evolutionary modification predicts.

Trotting out the usual hybrids. They are exactly what hybrids are. They are not proven parts of gradual evolutionary modifications according to standard predictions.

Dinosaurs supplanted by small mammals.

No.

Dinosaurs dominated for ~160 million years. After the asteroid impact, non-avian dinosaurs went extinct. Mammals diversified into ecological niches left vacant. That is ecological succession, not contradiction.

Dinosaurs supplanted by small animals, thanks to global ecological event.

I'm not advocating dinosaurs evolved into smaller animals, as though it were to upset some interspecies theoretical prediction modules. It only exists in the minds of inter-species evolution ideologues.

Humans are not listed among primate species.

This is factually incorrect.

Humans are not listed among primate species in standard species lists. Only in primate-man ideological species lists.

Humans are classified as:

Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Family: Hominidae
Genus: Homo
Species: Homo sapiens

By ideologues who think giving a species name to man, makes man a species.

Humans are apes. This is standard biological taxonomy.

This is standard unproven ideological taxonomy, like ideological funny math.

[RBD]

First, the term “genocide” has a definition: intentional destruction of a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.

Ok, in that case I don’t think there is any genocide in the Bible. If God kills, I don’t think it is based on nationality, race, nor religion.

So abortion is equal opportunity genocide. Unlimited and unhampered by superficial borders.

Here is the 11th contradiction from this list: https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/firs ... _list.html

What kind of animals may we eat?
Don't eat animals. Be a vegan (or at least a vegetarian).
God originally told humans to eat only plants.

God did not say “eat only plants”. If the Bible is wrong, you would not need to lie about it. Could you give one contradiction that is not based on lies, or bad interpretations?

…
Proverbs tells us not to be among the "riotous eaters of flesh."
Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh. Proverbs 23:20

“Riotous eaters of flesh”, not the same as “eaters of flesh”. Riotous eater is also translated gluttons, which means person who eats too much.

Daniel refused to defile himself by eating the meat that the king fed him.
But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat. Daniel 1:8

Not eating king’s meat is not the same as not eat any meat.

And Paul said we shouldn't eat meat if it offends other people. (And God knows it offends those weak-minded vegetarians.)
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Romans 14:21

Paul is not speaking about vegetarians, but about people who think some food is unclean (as said in the OT) and therefore not good to eat. And the point is, if one is in a group where some think some food is unclean, then it is better not to have it, for not to cause problems for the person.

This should adequately undermine the whole argument of judging the Bible God's righteousness as evil. Then seeking justification for veganism from the Bible God. It's no uncommon for people rejecting the Bible God, to then seek His approval for their own special ways.

[RBD]

Apparently humans lost the big picture and came up with strange ideas which are more often irrelevant.

Both Eden and Earth are sandboxes emulating the final Heaven where the high intelligence angels interact with the low intelligence humans. In both places humans are utterly defeated in terms of might and intelligence. In Eden humans were driven out of God's current dwelling place. On Earth all mankind without exception are captive under Law (that's why all need Jesus without exception. While Eden illustrates where the issue is, that is, how low intelligence humans are fooled by the crafty snake, Earth represents a resolution. Earth is like an examination hall, humans need to take 2 examinations, namely, Law and Faith. Even though Law is a must subject humans are doomed to fail (if only this Law examination is available, humans shall be destroyed as a whole). Humans can have a second examination, which is Faith, due to Jesus' self-sacrifice such that humans can be legally/lawfully judged with Covenant instead of Law (angels will be judged by Law). In effect, Jesus offsets the Law such that fairness is maintained with angels judged by Law while humans by Covenant.

Earth as its intended setup, is about a spiritual war on how Satan and his angels fight to keep humans captive, that is, first make them breaking the Law then make them losing their faith. Satan and his angels somehow do this at all cost. On the other hand, the resolution provided by God is that Faith remains the only weapon for humans to stand a chance to break the captivity to be saved, as they are doomed to fail in terms of might and intelligence (Isaiah 14:17). Satan will do whatever within his power (and allowed by means of how free will works) to continue to keep humans captive while the only window humans can stand a chance is through faith (vs. intelligence and strength).

So all matters is, God conveys a theology (of salvation) through the maximum capability of His chosen people. At the same time, Satan tries his best to stop God's plan. Satan's measures include corrupting the culture of Canaan and hijacking the Canaanites to attempt to eradicate the Jews of to contaminate their religion (such that the theology won't convey), include corrupting the cultures of earthly peoples (say by introducing different false major religions in the same way as how Satan corrupted Canaan), include by corrupting humans for the "most moral" humans to establish secular systems such as slavery serving as a distraction if the Jews choose to fight it in full effort (instead of conveying the theology). God didn't fall for it, His bottom line is to disallow the Jews to enslave each other as fighting the establishments set up by the most moral humans will be a futile effort and distraction intended by Satan.

At the same time, Satan never stops fooling and blinding humans from knowing simple truth such as what the maximum capability of humankind is in terms of conveying a full theology. That's why humans never notice this simple fact; Among all the civilizations and nations ever existed on the surface of Earth, only the Chinese and the Jews can have a rather full set of history. This means (Satan doesn't want you to know though) first, humans literally lack the ability to write, to keep and to convey history. Second, God has to choose between Israel and China for His theology (of salvation) to convey. All other human histories are broken (possibly another effort from Satan and his angels while blinding you from noticing this simple fact). This says how difficult it is for a small ethnicity (Israel) to write, to keep and to convey a full version of theology. Moreover, it's not a coincidence that the Chinese history is defined by its canonization and so is the Jewish history (Satan blinded you from reckoning the significance of canonization unless you compare the only two human histories, that is, the Chinese one and the Jewish one).

You overestimated the maximum capability of humankind in terms of how history is written. A valid testimony relies on full effort of full capability of the Jews disregarding their limited ability on scientifically comprehending the world, that is, whether the Jews took Earth as flat or a dome or not is irrelevant (God would correct them on occasions, say, it's described that how earth is suspending on nothing - Job 26:7).

In a nutshell, God's theology of salvation is conveyed in the Jews' full effort which represents the maximum capability of humankind, making the Bible a valid human testimony in the Court of Heaven such that humans can be legally judged accordingly. At the same time, whatever situations the OP mentioned only represent a good examination content of Faith. The more difficult Satan making the examination is, the more precious are those who can pass the examination and to be saved. That's what God wants.

Are you Gnostic in some way? Because by what I can glean, your argument has a principle flaw: It's not a matter of intelligence and might, but of a pure heart doing good, vs doing evil from a corrupt heart.

If the examination and testing ground is all about intelligence and strength quotients, the of course man fails to any angel. If if anyone believes that the answer of salvation is one of intelligence and might, then they've already failed the only one test and judgment that matters: Doing good from a pure heart, or doing evil from a corrupt heart.

Intelligence and might have nothing to do with the works God judges all men and women by:

2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Gal 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting…For there is no respect of persons with God.