Did he or didn't he?

[Athetotheist]

And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her.
(1 Samuel 28:6-7)

So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; and enquired not of the Lord
(1Chronicles 10:13-14)

How exactly are these to be reconciled?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #30]

He got nothing when he departed from the Lord, and worse, he put his last hope in that woman with a familiar spirit.

What's he supposed to do? Getting nothing is why he departs, according to the text. If Jehovah has decided to take the kingdom from Saul, he could tell Saul that as easily as Samuel does. He has multiple means and opportunities for doing so [dreams, Urim, prophets (1 Sam. 28:6)] and chooses not to. Even Samuel himself admits that (v.16).

The chronicler explicitly tells us that Saul didn't enquire of Jehovah when the author of Samuel explicitly tells us that he did.

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #30]

He got nothing when he departed from the Lord, and worse, he put his last hope in that woman with a familiar spirit.

What's he supposed to do?

He should have turned to God first, as a reconciliation to his departure from the Lord, and the idea of turning to the woman with a familiar spirit should never have entered his mind.

Getting nothing is why he departs, according to the text.

He departed first before he got nothing. Remember the scenario where Saul kills by 10k, but David kills by 100k - envy entered into his heart against David.

If Jehovah has decided to take the kingdom from Saul, he could tell Saul that as easily as Samuel does. He has multiple means and opportunities for doing so [dreams, Urim, prophets (1 Sam. 28:6)] and chooses not to. Even Samuel himself admits that (v.16).

Leave that to God alone, as no one has the right to question your personal decision in your life.

The chronicler explicitly tells us that Saul didn't enquire of Jehovah when the author of Samuel explicitly tells us that he did.

What’s the big deal, anyway? They’re both dead and long gone; there’s no way they could have reconciled their differences by now.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to OneJack in post #32]

He should have turned to God first, as a reconciliation to his departure from the Lord, and the idea of turning to the woman with a familiar spirit should never have entered his mind.

The idea of turning to the Wise Woman doesn't enter his mind until he's ignored by Jehovah.

He departed first before he got nothing. Remember the scenario where Saul kills by 10k, but David kills by 100k - envy entered into his heart against David.

What a thing to envy.....


If Jehovah has decided to take the kingdom from Saul, he could tell Saul that as easily as Samuel does. He has multiple means and opportunities for doing so [dreams, Urim, prophets (1 Sam. 28:6)] and chooses not to. Even Samuel himself admits that (v.16).

Leave that to God alone, as no one has the right to question your personal decision in your life.

Would you cut the same slack to any other deity for doing the same thing?

What’s the big deal, anyway? They’re both dead and long gone; there’s no way they could have reconciled their differences by now.

The big deal is the difference itself. They can't both be correct as they're written, which is an issue when divine inspiration is claimed.

"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."
(Psalms 12:6)

"I will worship toward Thy holy temple, and praise Thy name for Thy lovingkindness and for Thy truth, for Thou hast magnified Thy word above all Thy name."
(Psalm 138:2)

[RBD]

[Replying to RBD in post #26]

If insincerity is the problem with Saul, the text should say so where it refers to him just as it does where people are being insincere.

The text does show insincerity by doctrine of God seeing and judging the hearts, not just the lips and words.

But that's only for people studying a Book in order to learn the teaching, not just to find fault with the words.

Mar 12:13
And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.

Luk 11:54
Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.

Psa 35:8
Let destruction come upon him at unawares; and let his net that he hath hid catch himself: into that very destruction let him fall.

Tossing verses in willy-nilly doesn't provide context.

You're only purpose and job is to find Bible self-contradictions.

Ad Hominem.

Not just playing fault with words from one part of the Book to another without context.

It seems to me that trying to connect words from one part to another without context is what you're doing.

Unless you have something new to answer, then this argument is over. It's been interesting, but now is too long in the tooth to keep rehashing the same points. Adios.

[RBD]

And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her.
(1 Samuel 28:6-7)

So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; and enquired not of the Lord
(1Chronicles 10:13-14)

How exactly are these to be reconciled?

Saul put his last hope in the woman with a familiar spirit, instead of the Lord alone.

Which is why Saul spent so much time with the witch, after only a cursory appeal to the God, Whom he knew had forsaken him by his own wickedness.

[RBD]

[Replying to OneJack in post #30]

He got nothing when he departed from the Lord, and worse, he put his last hope in that woman with a familiar spirit.

What's he supposed to do? Getting nothing is why he departs, according to the text. If Jehovah has decided to take the kingdom from Saul, he could tell Saul that as easily as Samuel does. He has multiple means and opportunities for doing so [dreams, Urim, prophets (1 Sam. 28:6)] and chooses not to. Even Samuel himself admits that (v.16).

This is certainly new: An unbelieving natural man, that doesn't believe in God, much less that God talks to man, is preaching on who God can and can't talk too. It's like atheists trying to tell Christians how to be Christian.

The LORD only talks to believers with ears to hear, not with unbelievers turning a deaf ear not to hear.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to RBD in post #34]

Unless you have something new to answer, then this argument is over. It's been interesting, but now is too long in the tooth to keep rehashing the same points. Adios.

If that's all the response you have left, I guess I don't need any new answer.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to RBD in post #36]

What's he supposed to do? Getting nothing is why he departs, according to the text. If Jehovah has decided to take the kingdom from Saul, he could tell Saul that as easily as Samuel does. He has multiple means and opportunities for doing so [dreams, Urim, prophets (1 Sam. 28:6)] and chooses not to. Even Samuel himself admits that (v.16).

This is certainly new: An unbelieving natural man, that doesn't believe in God, much less that God talks to man, is preaching on who God can and can't talk too. It's like atheists trying to tell Christians how to be Christian.

Can you really not fathom that it's possible to believe in God in ways other than your way?

Read my signature.

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #32]

He should have turned to God first, as a reconciliation to his departure from the Lord, and the idea of turning to the woman with a familiar spirit should never have entered his mind.

The idea of turning to the Wise Woman doesn't enter his mind until he's ignored by Jehovah.

That doesn’t make sense, knowing that God is one and that He prohibits His people from engaging in such an act, inimical and detrimental to the harmonious relationship between him (Saul) and the Lord. Saul should have learned to be patient in waiting for the Lord’s response while he continued to show repentance for his unbecoming act, as a good servant.

He departed first before he got nothing. Remember the scenario where Saul kills by 10k, but David kills by 100k - envy entered into his heart against David.

What a thing to envy.....

The thing of envy - Fame and Glory! Saul was the king, yet his follower, David, almost surpassed him in every act. Worse, an impending FORFEITURE of his throne may come sooner or later.

If Jehovah has decided to take the kingdom from Saul, he could tell Saul that as easily as Samuel does. He has multiple means and opportunities for doing so [dreams, Urim, prophets (1 Sam. 28:6)] and chooses not to. Even Samuel himself admits that (v.16).

Leave that to God alone, as no one has the right to question your personal decision in your life.

Would you cut the same slack to any other deity for doing the same thing?

Sorry, your premise - ‘any other deity’ - is not in my bucket list, hence, non-negotiable! I don’t succumb to any opinion alone in this issue of ‘any other deity,’ come what may!

What’s the big deal, anyway? They’re both dead and long gone; there’s no way they could have reconciled their differences by now.

The big deal is the difference itself. They can't both be correct as they're written, which is an issue when divine inspiration is claimed.

Who claims what, in this context, knowing that you’re only reading the bible, which is not God Himself, nor is it the Chronicler nor Saul? What would be the big deal even if they were both wrong?

"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."
(Psalms 12:6)

"I will worship toward Thy holy temple, and praise Thy name for Thy lovingkindness and for Thy truth, for Thou hast magnified Thy word above all Thy name."
(Psalm 138:2

Two things:

1. Face reality - you’re just reading and posting biblical passages, which you misinterpreted, wittingly or unwittingly, as the word of God.

2. The word of God is the real and forever living Lord Jesus Christ, to whom we can only hear the pure and authentic words of God, across all generations, and from eternity to eternity.

[OneJack]

And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her.
(1 Samuel 28:6-7)

So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; and enquired not of the Lord
(1Chronicles 10:13-14)

How exactly are these to be reconciled?

Saul put his last hope in the woman with a familiar spirit, instead of the Lord alone.

Which is why Saul spent so much time with the witch, after only a cursory appeal to the God, Whom he knew had forsaken him by his own wickedness.

Nice point, RBD!