Is God evil?

[Compassionist]

There are many verses in the Bible about God's predestination. https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination Why would a good God predestine anyone to do evil? Surely, a good God would predestine all to do good? Does the existence of evil prove that God is evil? Surely, a good God would have made all living things to be autotrophs instead of making some autotrophs, some herbivores, some carnivores, some omnivores, and some parasites? Here are some examples of evil events which caused or are causing suffering, deaths, and injustices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... death_toll
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... death_toll
https://thevegancalculator.com/animal-slaughter

[Compassionist]

[Replying to William in post #300]

That’s an imaginative proposal, and I see the appeal: an eternal mind that “plays out” potentialities through simulation rather than remaining static. But once we say an omniscient being can “create situations in order to learn,” we’ve quietly redefined omniscience.

To learn is to acquire knowledge one previously lacked. If the being already knows all truths - actual and possible - there’s nothing new to gain, even through simulation. Running the simulation could at most instantiate knowledge it already has, not expand it. At that point, “learning” becomes metaphorical, not literal.

We can, of course, posit a near-omniscient or maximally intelligent being that chooses to explore possibilities it doesn’t fully grasp, but that’s different from classical omniscience. The moment genuine novelty or discovery enters the picture, total omniscience ends.

So the idea is coherent if you drop infinite knowledge and replace it with infinite curiosity or creativity. An eternal, creative intelligence could generate universes to explore its own potential. But an all-knowing one wouldn’t need to - it would already know every outcome of every possible simulation before pressing “run.”

[William]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #301]

We can, of course, posit a near-omniscient or maximally intelligent being that chooses to explore possibilities it doesn’t fully grasp, but that’s different from classical omniscience.

Yeah - I wasn't and have never argued for "classical omniscience".

Did you ever get an answer to your OPQ?

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #301]

We can, of course, posit a near-omniscient or maximally intelligent being that chooses to explore possibilities it doesn’t fully grasp, but that’s different from classical omniscience.

Yeah - I wasn't and have never argued for "classical omniscience".

Did you ever get an answer to your OPQ?

I understand. I am not convinced there is any all-knowing and all-powerful God. It's impossible to prove the non-existence of anything. As for the Biblical God, given all the cruelties and injustices in the Bible, I am convinced that God is both imaginary and evil.

[William]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #301]

We can, of course, posit a near-omniscient or maximally intelligent being that chooses to explore possibilities it doesn’t fully grasp, but that’s different from classical omniscience.

Yeah - I wasn't and have never argued for "classical omniscience".

Did you ever get an answer to your OPQ?

I understand. I am not convinced there is any all-knowing and all-powerful God. It's impossible to prove the non-existence of anything. As for the Biblical God, given all the cruelties and injustices in the Bible, I am convinced that God is both imaginary and evil.

If something is both imaginary and evil, is that like saying evil is imaginary?
Re the bible stories about the Biblical God, are you claiming that everything said about the actions of the God are cruel and unjust? If not, how do you reconcile your conviction that the God is evil?

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #301]

We can, of course, posit a near-omniscient or maximally intelligent being that chooses to explore possibilities it doesn’t fully grasp, but that’s different from classical omniscience.

Yeah - I wasn't and have never argued for "classical omniscience".

Did you ever get an answer to your OPQ?

I understand. I am not convinced there is any all-knowing and all-powerful God. It's impossible to prove the non-existence of anything. As for the Biblical God, given all the cruelties and injustices in the Bible, I am convinced that God is both imaginary and evil.

If something is both imaginary and evil, is that like saying evil is imaginary?
Re the bible stories about the Biblical God, are you claiming that everything said about the actions of the God are cruel and unjust? If not, how do you reconcile your conviction that the God is evil?

No, it's not like saying evil is imaginary. Voldemort in the Harry Potter books and movies is both imaginary and evil. He is imaginary because he never existed in the real world. He is a fictional character. He is evil because he causes deliberate harm, e.g. murder. The same is true of the Biblical God. Hence, my conclusion is that the Biblical God is imaginary and evil.

[William]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #305]

Re the bible stories about the Biblical God, are you claiming that everything said about the actions of the God are cruel and unjust? If not, how do you reconcile your conviction that the God is evil?

No, it's not like saying evil is imaginary. Voldemort in the Harry Potter books and movies is both imaginary and evil. He is imaginary because he never existed in the real world. He is a fictional character. He is evil because he causes deliberate harm, e.g. murder. The same is true of the Biblical God. Hence, my conclusion is that the Biblical God is imaginary and evil.

I do not know the stories of Voldemort in the Harry Potter books. Does Voldemort only do evil? If he does, then are you saying the same of the Biblical God?

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #305]

Re the bible stories about the Biblical God, are you claiming that everything said about the actions of the God are cruel and unjust? If not, how do you reconcile your conviction that the God is evil?

No, it's not like saying evil is imaginary. Voldemort in the Harry Potter books and movies is both imaginary and evil. He is imaginary because he never existed in the real world. He is a fictional character. He is evil because he causes deliberate harm, e.g. murder. The same is true of the Biblical God. Hence, my conclusion is that the Biblical God is imaginary and evil.

I do not know the stories of Voldemort in the Harry Potter books. Does Voldemort only do evil? If he does, then are you saying the same of the Biblical God?

Voldemort does both good and evil. He does more evil than good. The same is true of the Biblical God.

[William]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #305]

Re the bible stories about the Biblical God, are you claiming that everything said about the actions of the God are cruel and unjust? If not, how do you reconcile your conviction that the God is evil?

No, it's not like saying evil is imaginary. Voldemort in the Harry Potter books and movies is both imaginary and evil. He is imaginary because he never existed in the real world. He is a fictional character. He is evil because he causes deliberate harm, e.g. murder. The same is true of the Biblical God. Hence, my conclusion is that the Biblical God is imaginary and evil.

I do not know the stories of Voldemort in the Harry Potter books. Does Voldemort only do evil? If he does, then are you saying the same of the Biblical God?

Voldemort does both good and evil. He does more evil than good. The same is true of the Biblical God.

Okay, so you are claiming there is a notable bias in how the BG leans more toward "evil" while acknowledging it is not pure or perfect evil because "good" is also present?

If so, how are you reconciling the lack of both perfect good and perfect evil?

(I am currently engaged in another interaction about this subject, with UICDS.)

eta: Link to content of finished interaction...

[Compassionist]

[Replying to William in post #308]

That’s right - I’m not arguing that the Biblical God is pure evil, only that the Biblical texts attribute to God both benevolent and malevolent acts.
He blesses the poor and heals the sick in some passages, yet in others He sends plagues, commands genocides, drowns nearly all life on Earth except for Noah and his family and the animals on Noah's Ark, or punishes descendants for their ancestors’ sins. If the same being performs both life-saving and life-destroying deeds, the issue isn’t about “pure good” or “pure evil,” but about moral consistency.

A morally perfect, all-loving deity would act with complete compassion and fairness at all times. A morally mixed agent - like humans or fictional figures such as Voldemort - acts with partial compassion, sometimes kind, sometimes cruel. So the problem is not the absence of either extreme, but the presence of contradiction within a being claimed to be morally perfect.

In human moral reasoning, we call someone “good” not because they occasionally do kind things, but because their actions consistently minimize harm and maximize well-being. If a deity behaves otherwise, then either that deity is not all-loving, or our concept of “love” is being stretched to include cruelty - which empties the word of meaning.

So the question isn’t whether the Biblical God shows a mix of good and evil - that’s evident from the texts - but whether such a morally mixed profile can coherently describe an omnibenevolent being. My studied conclusion is that the Biblical God is much more evil than good.

[William]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #309]

So the question isn’t whether the Biblical God shows a mix of good and evil - that’s evident from the texts - but whether such a morally mixed profile can coherently describe an omnibenevolent being. My studied conclusion is that the Biblical God is much more evil than good.

Okay.

So your question is based upon your interpretation of the Biblical God.

Your answer appears to be, "The BG is NOT perfect or pure evil, but capable of being both, and in relation to the stories, is more evil than good."

What makes your answer the best or truest one we should accept?