THIS IS YOUR PROOF? Haaaaa

[Avoice]

This proves Jesus is the Messiah, huh?

He turned water into wine
Walked on water
Blah-blah-blah

WHY are Christians so impressed with those things?

Did you notice that all the things that Jesus was said to have done cant be proven.
Walked on water? Says who? Wheres thevell evidence? And even f you had evidence it doesnt matter. It means nothing. It is not foretold that the messiah will walk on water.
Hey,...Neil Armstrong walked on the moon. Pretty cool. But thats not what we look for. Walking on the moon or the water means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!

Nobody dared to claim he brought peace. Because wed know it.
If he built the 3rd temple we'd know it

Jesus has done nothing the messiah is to do. And all the things that 'wow' Christians arent the things that we are told the messiah will do.

Christians: Why are you so wowed over things that dont matter?

[1213]

... You say the Romans killed Jesus BUT there were also Jews who wanted it to be done...

That is what the Bible tells. It does not mean that all Jews wanted that. Nor it means all Jews can be blamed for it. I think it is disturbing that many seem to think that blame is always collective, if some people of some group does something wrong, all are blamed, i think that is wrong.

YOU need him dead.

Why do you think so? I don't need, nor want him dead.

What kind of a person would let an innocent person be punished for crimes they didn't commit.

Do you think Jesus was innocent?

But when it comes to saving yourselves (Christians) you are willing to sacrifice God.

According to the Bible, Jesus is a man. And human sacrifices are wrong, for example because, I don't own humans, and if I kill something that I don't own, it is no sacrifice from me.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

[1213]

You believed the New covenant happened?
Don't you even bother listening to God. Why don't you believe him? He said ALL WILL KNOW HIM. NO ONE WILL BE OUT PREACHING anymore. Meaning you and I and this forum will have no purpose. Why don't you believe God?

I believe the new covenant is set, but not everyone will accept it.

For finding fault with them, he said, "Behold, the days come," says the Lord, "That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they didn't continue in my covenant, And I disregarded them," says the Lord. "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen,{TR reads "neighbor" instead of "fellow citizen"} Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Heb. 8:8-12 (Jer. 31:31-34)

And what makes you think you can offer a sacrifice? That is to say - Jesus. Christians say they are no longer under the law. THEREFORE YOU HAVE NO PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW. AND THAT INCLUDES THE SACRIFICIAL SYSTEM.
Either you are under the law or you are not.

I think under the law means, person obeys the law, because he is forced to do so, against his will. If person is not under the law, he obeys the law, because he wants to do so freely, because he loves God.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

Living life the same way as Jesus lived, I think that is the sacrifice I should do, if I want to make any sacrifice.

Walk in love, even as Christ also loved you, and gave himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling fragrance.
Eph. 5:2

Killing something is not required, especially when sins are forgiven.

God said he only accepts sacrifices in the temple. And blood must be put on horns if the alter. Jesus is unacceptable.

I think it is wrong to see Jesus a sacrifice in the sense things were usually sacrificed. Jesus was like a sacrifice, because he used his life for us and was killed because of it. But no one killed him with the idea that now we are making a sacrifice. And even if people would do so, it would not be acceptable for example because people didn't own Jesus and killing something that people don't own, is no sacrifice.

And Jesus didn't want to die remember? He wasn't a willing sacrifice. And what did he sacrifice? His life? No. Because you say he is alive. He suffered before he died? I got news for you: a woman in labor would trade places with Jesus. So would men who had their legs blown off in combat.

The sacrifice Jesus made was that he used his life for us, for our benefit.

And I think he hoped he could avoid death, but accepted it, because he understood that it was beneficial. Therefore it went the way he wanted it.

But, would someone want to trade his place, I don't believe that.

Who in their right mind would turn down a deal like that? No one. All would take that deal!!! Like winning the lottery.

Easy to say, when you have not experienced it.

[Clownboat]

According to the Bible, Jesus is a man. And human sacrifices are wrong,

According to the story, Jesus was a demigod (the son of a Hebrew god concept and a human women). Demigods were pretty common back then from what I read. Zeus personally had over 100 offspring himself if you happen to believe such things.

Perhaps the blood of a demigod is the most pleasant aroma to Jehovah?

[Haven]

[Replying to Avoice in post #1]

Speaking as one of the resident secularists: you can be more civil in the way you frame your questions. This forum is about showing mutual respect and coming to an understanding, not mocking certain belief systems.

With that said, I don’t find the messianic prophecies all that important. The reason I don’t believe Christian claims is that there is simply no evidence to support them. I don’t think Jewish messianic claims are even logically coherent (from what the Torah / Mishna / Talmud state, the requirements are unclear, the only common threads being that he will be a political leader that will liberate the Jewish people) so judging someone by them feels illogical.

[1213]

According to the story, Jesus was a demigod (the son of a Hebrew god concept and a human women).

I don't think Bible says Jesus is a demigod. And in the Bible, children of God means:

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed: that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn’t commit sin, because his seed remains in him, and he can’t sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn’t do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn’t love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

[Avoice]

[Replying to 1213 in post #15]

Where in the scriptures does it say Satan sinned?

Au contraire. Satan obeys God. Just look to the book of Job.

So again, where does it say Satan sinned?

[Clownboat]

According to the story, Jesus was a demigod (the son of a Hebrew god concept and a human women).

I don't think Bible says Jesus is a demigod.

Let's test if what you think even matters shall we?
Was Jesus the offspring of a Hebrew god concept and a human women?

dem·i·god
/ˈdemēˌɡäd/
noun
a being with partial or lesser divine status, such as a minor deity, the offspring of a god and a mortal, or a mortal raised to divine rank.

Your thoughts have been put to perspective.

And in the Bible, children of God means:

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed: that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn’t commit sin, because his seed remains in him, and he can’t sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn’t do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn’t love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

I acknowledge this and find it very uninteresting. Probably should have <snipped> it to be honest.

[Haven]

[Replying to Avoice in post #16]

Technically ha-Satan (the Prosecutor, the Accuser) in Judaism isn’t evil, just one charged with prosecuting a punishing evil. The Christian devil is an invention of late antiquity, and eventually got transformed into the current figure under medieval European influence.

But I get what you mean. If you interpret the Bible in a literal, fundamentalist way, Satan / the Devil can only be seen as a servant of God.

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #15]

Where in the scriptures does it say Satan sinned?

For example in the 1 John 3:7-10.

[Avoice]

[Replying to 1213 in post #19]

Sorry but you can use the Christian Testament to defend your opinion. I should clarify that. You can use a passage BUT it must MUST be supported by the Hebrew Scriptures. It must be

When reading the Christian testament keep this in mind:
If it's TRUE it's not new. If it's new it's NOT TRUE

MEANING: If the Christian Bible says something which the Hebrew Scriptures also states then it's true .
If the Christian Testament says something that it doesn't say in the Hebrew Scriptures it can NOT be upheld as the truth.
The Hebrew scriptures is ALWAYS THE authority