Equality between the Father and Son

[placebofactor]

Did the Father have the power to raise or elevate his Son Jesus to the same rank as himself? Let us call the highest rank in heaven "the rank of God."

Hebrews 1:8, The Father said of his Son Jesus, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom." Verse 9, "Therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of Gladness above thy fellows." Verse 10, "And thou LORD (the Father calling his Son Jehovah), in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the works of your hands."

And is there the same degree of likeness, similarity, and dignity between the Father and Son? If so, then the Son can be called God because it's the Father's prerogative. And if it is the Father's privilege, who are we to deny it?

[placebofactor]

Did the Father have the power to raise or elevate his Son Jesus to the same rank as himself? Let us call the highest rank in heaven "the rank of God."

Hebrews 1:8, The Father said of his Son Jesus, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom." Verse 9, "Therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of Gladness above thy fellows." Verse 10, "And thou LORD (the Father calling his Son Jehovah), in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the works of your hands."

And is there the same degree of likeness, similarity, and dignity between the Father and Son? If so, then the Son can be called God because it's the Father's prerogative. And if it is the Father's privilege, who are we to deny it?

Because the Father said this concerning his Son, then Jesus Christ must be God. Hebrews 1:8 gives us strong evidence of the Divinity of Jesus Christ. This decree from the Father extends in both worlds and encompasses all time, and will endure throughout all endless duration.

Matthew 28:18, "And Jesus came and spoke unto them saying, all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."

[onewithhim]

Did the Father have the power to raise or elevate his Son Jesus to the same rank as himself? Let us call the highest rank in heaven "the rank of God."

Hebrews 1:8, The Father said of his Son Jesus, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom." Verse 9, "Therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of Gladness above thy fellows." Verse 10, "And thou LORD (the Father calling his Son Jehovah), in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the works of your hands."

And is there the same degree of likeness, similarity, and dignity between the Father and Son? If so, then the Son can be called God because it's the Father's prerogative. And if it is the Father's privilege, who are we to deny it?

That is not so. God never called the Son "God." The Hebrew (Psalm 45) from which the writer of Hebrews rendered Heb.1:8 did not say anything about God calling the Son "O God." The Hebrew language (in the Psalms) says, "Your divine throne is everlasting." The writer of Hebrews would undoubtedly copy down carefully what the verse said in Hebrew. The translation "God is your throne" is more accurate than "your throne O God." All power comes to the Son from the Father.

Verse 10 does not find the Father calling the Son "Jehovah." It says, "You at the beginning O Lord..." It does not have "Lord" in all capital letters which would indicate it was Jehovah that was being referenced. It is just "Lord," which Jesus was called many times in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament). A very weak defense for the Jesus-is-God theory.

In fact, verse 9 shows unequivocally that the Son has a God. It says, "God, your God anointed you with the oil of exultation..."

[Capbook]

Did the Father have the power to raise or elevate his Son Jesus to the same rank as himself? Let us call the highest rank in heaven "the rank of God."

Hebrews 1:8, The Father said of his Son Jesus, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom." Verse 9, "Therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of Gladness above thy fellows." Verse 10, "And thou LORD (the Father calling his Son Jehovah), in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the works of your hands."

And is there the same degree of likeness, similarity, and dignity between the Father and Son? If so, then the Son can be called God because it's the Father's prerogative. And if it is the Father's privilege, who are we to deny it?

That is not so. God never called the Son "God." The Hebrew (Psalm 45) from which the writer of Hebrews rendered Heb.1:8 did not say anything about God calling the Son "O God." The Hebrew language (in the Psalms) says, "Your divine throne is everlasting." The writer of Hebrews would undoubtedly copy down carefully what the verse said in Hebrew. The translation "God is your throne" is more accurate than "your throne O God." All power comes to the Son from the Father.

Verse 10 does not find the Father calling the Son "Jehovah." It says, "You at the beginning O Lord..." It does not have "Lord" in all capital letters which would indicate it was Jehovah that was being referenced. It is just "Lord," which Jesus was called many times in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament). A very weak defense for the Jesus-is-God theory.

In fact, verse 9 shows unequivocally that the Son has a God. It says, "God, your God anointed you with the oil of exultation..."

Here's the Hebrew of Psa 45:6 (7 in the Tanakh) below and it does not say what you've said. You quote the translation but not the original. See the Tanakh written in Hebrew and compare the Strong Numbers with the KJV of Psa 45:6, it proves you wrong. And in Heb 1:9, as you quote it, we can read two "God" there, one refer to Jesus in support to verse 8, and the other refer to the Father. Thus God Jesus, anointed with oil of joy by God the Father.

Psa 45:7 כסאך H3678  אלהים H430  עולם H5769  ועד H5703  שׁבט H7626  מישׁר H4334  שׁבט H7626  מלכותך׃ H4438 
Psa 45:6 Thy throne, H3678  O God, H430  is for ever H5769  and ever: H5703  the sceptre H7626  of thy kingdom H4438  is a right H4334  sceptre. H7626 

[onewithhim]

Did the Father have the power to raise or elevate his Son Jesus to the same rank as himself? Let us call the highest rank in heaven "the rank of God."

Hebrews 1:8, The Father said of his Son Jesus, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom." Verse 9, "Therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of Gladness above thy fellows." Verse 10, "And thou LORD (the Father calling his Son Jehovah), in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the works of your hands."

And is there the same degree of likeness, similarity, and dignity between the Father and Son? If so, then the Son can be called God because it's the Father's prerogative. And if it is the Father's privilege, who are we to deny it?

That is not so. God never called the Son "God." The Hebrew (Psalm 45) from which the writer of Hebrews rendered Heb.1:8 did not say anything about God calling the Son "O God." The Hebrew language (in the Psalms) says, "Your divine throne is everlasting." The writer of Hebrews would undoubtedly copy down carefully what the verse said in Hebrew. The translation "God is your throne" is more accurate than "your throne O God." All power comes to the Son from the Father.

Verse 10 does not find the Father calling the Son "Jehovah." It says, "You at the beginning O Lord..." It does not have "Lord" in all capital letters which would indicate it was Jehovah that was being referenced. It is just "Lord," which Jesus was called many times in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament). A very weak defense for the Jesus-is-God theory.

In fact, verse 9 shows unequivocally that the Son has a God. It says, "God, your God anointed you with the oil of exultation..."

Here's the Hebrew of Psa 45:6 (7 in the Tanakh) below and it does not say what you've said. You quote the translation but not the original. See the Tanakh written in Hebrew and compare the Strong Numbers with the KJV of Psa 45:6, it proves you wrong. And in Heb 1:9, as you quote it, we can read two "God" there, one refer to Jesus in support to verse 8, and the other refer to the Father. Thus God Jesus, anointed with oil of joy by God the Father.

Psa 45:7 כסאך H3678  אלהים H430  עולם H5769  ועד H5703  שׁבט H7626  מישׁר H4334  שׁבט H7626  מלכותך׃ H4438 
Psa 45:6 Thy throne, H3678  O God, H430  is for ever H5769  and ever: H5703  the sceptre H7626  of thy kingdom H4438  is a right H4334  sceptre. H7626 

That is not what the Tanakh in Hebrew says about the actual wording of Psalm 45:6. It says, "Your divine throne is everlasting." No where near "your throne O God." The writer of Hebrews would have copied that verse verbatim, and there is no room for translating it as "your throne O God." Also, it is God, Jesus' God, that anoints him as the Messiah. There is not anything to refer to Jesus as God.

[Capbook]

Did the Father have the power to raise or elevate his Son Jesus to the same rank as himself? Let us call the highest rank in heaven "the rank of God."

Hebrews 1:8, The Father said of his Son Jesus, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom." Verse 9, "Therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of Gladness above thy fellows." Verse 10, "And thou LORD (the Father calling his Son Jehovah), in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the works of your hands."

And is there the same degree of likeness, similarity, and dignity between the Father and Son? If so, then the Son can be called God because it's the Father's prerogative. And if it is the Father's privilege, who are we to deny it?

That is not so. God never called the Son "God." The Hebrew (Psalm 45) from which the writer of Hebrews rendered Heb.1:8 did not say anything about God calling the Son "O God." The Hebrew language (in the Psalms) says, "Your divine throne is everlasting." The writer of Hebrews would undoubtedly copy down carefully what the verse said in Hebrew. The translation "God is your throne" is more accurate than "your throne O God." All power comes to the Son from the Father.

Verse 10 does not find the Father calling the Son "Jehovah." It says, "You at the beginning O Lord..." It does not have "Lord" in all capital letters which would indicate it was Jehovah that was being referenced. It is just "Lord," which Jesus was called many times in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament). A very weak defense for the Jesus-is-God theory.

In fact, verse 9 shows unequivocally that the Son has a God. It says, "God, your God anointed you with the oil of exultation..."

Here's the Hebrew of Psa 45:6 (7 in the Tanakh) below and it does not say what you've said. You quote the translation but not the original. See the Tanakh written in Hebrew and compare the Strong Numbers with the KJV of Psa 45:6, it proves you wrong. And in Heb 1:9, as you quote it, we can read two "God" there, one refer to Jesus in support to verse 8, and the other refer to the Father. Thus God Jesus, anointed with oil of joy by God the Father.

Psa 45:7 כסאך H3678  אלהים H430  עולם H5769  ועד H5703  שׁבט H7626  מישׁר H4334  שׁבט H7626  מלכותך׃ H4438 
Psa 45:6 Thy throne, H3678  O God, H430  is for ever H5769  and ever: H5703  the sceptre H7626  of thy kingdom H4438  is a right H4334  sceptre. H7626 

That is not what the Tanakh in Hebrew says about the actual wording of Psalm 45:6. It says, "Your divine throne is everlasting." No where near "your throne O God." The writer of Hebrews would have copied that verse verbatim, and there is no room for translating it as "your throne O God." Also, it is God, Jesus' God, that anoints him as the Messiah. There is not anything to refer to Jesus as God.

In order for us to believe your argument, post the Hebrew text not the English translation.
I already made mine, hoping to see yours.

[tygger2]

[Replying to Capbook in post #6]

Oxford professor and famous trinitarian Bible translator, Dr. James Moffatt, has been described as “probably the greatest biblical scholar of our day.” His respected Bible translation renders Heb. 1:8 as:
“God is thy throne for ever and ever.”

University of Cambridge professor and noted New Testament language scholar, Dr. C. F. D. Moule writes that Heb. 1:8 may be “construed so as to mean Thy throne is God” - p. 32, An Idiom Book of New Testament Greek, Cambridge University Press, 1990 printing.

An American Translation (Smith-Goodspeed), renders it: “God is your throne....”

And The Bible in Living English (Byington) reads: “God is your throne....”

The Message reads: “Your throne is God’s throne….”

NSB - God is your throne

Mace - "God is thy throne….”

Twentieth Century Translation - ‘God is thy throne….’

Another world-acclaimed scholar of trinitarian Christendom has translated this verse similarly and made some interesting comments. Trinitarian Dr. William Barclay,

“world-renowned Scottish New Testament interpreter, was noted as a profound scholar and a writer of extraordinary gifts .... He was the minister of Trinity Church, Renfrew, Scotland, and, later, Professor of Divinity and Biblical Criticism at the University of Glasgow.”

Dr. Barclay, in his translation of the New Testament, has also rendered Hebrews 1:8 as : “God is your throne for ever and ever.”

Noted trinitarian (Southern Baptist) New Testament Greek scholar Dr. A. T. Robertson acknowledges that either “Thy throne, O God” or “God is thy throne”/“thy throne is God” may be proper renderings: “Either makes good sense.” - p. 339, Word Pictures in the New Testament.

The American Standard Version (ASV), the Revised Standard Version (RSV), the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), and The New English Bible (NEB) have provided alternate readings to the traditional trinitarian rendering of the KJV at Hebrews 1:8. These alternate readings (found in footnotes) agree with Dr. Moffatt’s, Dr. Barclay’s, Smith-Goodspeed’s, Byington’s, and the New World Translation’s renderings of this scripture (“God is your throne”).

Even Young’s Concise Bible Commentary (written by the famous trinitarian author of Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible) admits: “[Heb. 1:8] may be justly rendered ‘God is thy throne ...’ in either case it is applicable to the mediatorial throne only.”

[tygger2]

Psalms
45
JPS, 1985
Source
Translation
Source with Translation
....

Psalm 45
לַמְנַצֵּ֣חַ עַל־שֹׁ֭שַׁנִּים לִבְנֵי־קֹ֑רַח מַ֝שְׂכִּ֗יל שִׁ֣יר יְדִידֹֽת׃
For the leader; on shoshannim.-a Of the Korahites. A maskil. A love song.
רָ֘חַ֤שׁ לִבִּ֨י ׀ דָּ֘בָ֤ר ט֗וֹב אֹמֵ֣ר אָ֭נִי מַעֲשַׂ֣י לְמֶ֑לֶךְ לְ֝שׁוֹנִ֗י עֵ֤ט ׀ סוֹפֵ֬ר מָהִֽיר׃
My heart is astir with gracious words;
I speak my poem to a king;
my tongue is the pen of an expert scribe.
יׇפְיָפִ֡יתָ מִבְּנֵ֬י אָדָ֗ם ה֣וּצַק חֵ֭ן בְּשִׂפְתוֹתֶ֑יךָ עַל־כֵּ֤ן בֵּרַכְךָ֖ אֱלֹהִ֣ים לְעוֹלָֽם׃
You are fairer than all men;
your speech is endowed with grace;
rightly has God given you an eternal blessing.
חֲגֽוֹר־חַרְבְּךָ֣ עַל־יָרֵ֣ךְ גִּבּ֑וֹר ה֝וֹדְךָ֗ וַהֲדָרֶֽךָ׃
Gird your sword upon your thigh, O hero,
in your splendor and glory;
וַהֲדָ֬רְךָ֨ ׀ צְלַ֬ח רְכַ֗ב עַֽל־דְּבַר־אֱ֭מֶת וְעַנְוָה־צֶ֑דֶק וְתוֹרְךָ֖ נוֹרָא֣וֹת יְמִינֶֽךָ׃
in your glory, win success;
ride on in the cause of truth and meekness and right;
and let your right hand lead you to awesome deeds.-a
חִצֶּ֗יךָ שְׁנ֫וּנִ֥ים עַ֭מִּים תַּחְתֶּ֣יךָ יִפְּל֑וּ בְּ֝לֵ֗ב אוֹיְבֵ֥י הַמֶּֽלֶךְ׃
Your arrows, sharpened,
[pierce] the breast of the king’s enemies;
peoples fall at your feet.-b
כִּסְאֲךָ֣ אֱ֭לֹהִים עוֹלָ֣ם וָעֶ֑ד שֵׁ֥בֶט מִ֝ישֹׁ֗ר שֵׁ֣בֶט מַלְכוּתֶֽךָ׃
Your divine throne-c is everlasting;
your royal scepter is a scepter of equity.

The footnote for this refers to 1 Chron. 29:23.
Solomon successfully took over the throne of the LORD as king instead of his father David


[Replying to Capbook in post #6]

[onewithhim]

Did the Father have the power to raise or elevate his Son Jesus to the same rank as himself? Let us call the highest rank in heaven "the rank of God."

Hebrews 1:8, The Father said of his Son Jesus, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom." Verse 9, "Therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of Gladness above thy fellows." Verse 10, "And thou LORD (the Father calling his Son Jehovah), in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the works of your hands."

And is there the same degree of likeness, similarity, and dignity between the Father and Son? If so, then the Son can be called God because it's the Father's prerogative. And if it is the Father's privilege, who are we to deny it?

That is not so. God never called the Son "God." The Hebrew (Psalm 45) from which the writer of Hebrews rendered Heb.1:8 did not say anything about God calling the Son "O God." The Hebrew language (in the Psalms) says, "Your divine throne is everlasting." The writer of Hebrews would undoubtedly copy down carefully what the verse said in Hebrew. The translation "God is your throne" is more accurate than "your throne O God." All power comes to the Son from the Father.

Verse 10 does not find the Father calling the Son "Jehovah." It says, "You at the beginning O Lord..." It does not have "Lord" in all capital letters which would indicate it was Jehovah that was being referenced. It is just "Lord," which Jesus was called many times in the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament). A very weak defense for the Jesus-is-God theory.

In fact, verse 9 shows unequivocally that the Son has a God. It says, "God, your God anointed you with the oil of exultation..."

Here's the Hebrew of Psa 45:6 (7 in the Tanakh) below and it does not say what you've said. You quote the translation but not the original. See the Tanakh written in Hebrew and compare the Strong Numbers with the KJV of Psa 45:6, it proves you wrong. And in Heb 1:9, as you quote it, we can read two "God" there, one refer to Jesus in support to verse 8, and the other refer to the Father. Thus God Jesus, anointed with oil of joy by God the Father.

Psa 45:7 כסאך H3678  אלהים H430  עולם H5769  ועד H5703  שׁבט H7626  מישׁר H4334  שׁבט H7626  מלכותך׃ H4438 
Psa 45:6 Thy throne, H3678  O God, H430  is for ever H5769  and ever: H5703  the sceptre H7626  of thy kingdom H4438  is a right H4334  sceptre. H7626 

That is not what the Tanakh in Hebrew says about the actual wording of Psalm 45:6. It says, "Your divine throne is everlasting." No where near "your throne O God." The writer of Hebrews would have copied that verse verbatim, and there is no room for translating it as "your throne O God." Also, it is God, Jesus' God, that anoints him as the Messiah. There is not anything to refer to Jesus as God.

In order for us to believe your argument, post the Hebrew text not the English translation.
I already made mine, hoping to see yours.

One has to translate the Hebrew into English or the Hebrew would not be understood by the ordinary person.

[onewithhim]

Psalms
45
JPS, 1985
Source
Translation
Source with Translation
....

Psalm 45
לַמְנַצֵּ֣חַ עַל־שֹׁ֭שַׁנִּים לִבְנֵי־קֹ֑רַח מַ֝שְׂכִּ֗יל שִׁ֣יר יְדִידֹֽת׃
For the leader; on shoshannim.-a Of the Korahites. A maskil. A love song.
רָ֘חַ֤שׁ לִבִּ֨י ׀ דָּ֘בָ֤ר ט֗וֹב אֹמֵ֣ר אָ֭נִי מַעֲשַׂ֣י לְמֶ֑לֶךְ לְ֝שׁוֹנִ֗י עֵ֤ט ׀ סוֹפֵ֬ר מָהִֽיר׃
My heart is astir with gracious words;
I speak my poem to a king;
my tongue is the pen of an expert scribe.
יׇפְיָפִ֡יתָ מִבְּנֵ֬י אָדָ֗ם ה֣וּצַק חֵ֭ן בְּשִׂפְתוֹתֶ֑יךָ עַל־כֵּ֤ן בֵּרַכְךָ֖ אֱלֹהִ֣ים לְעוֹלָֽם׃
You are fairer than all men;
your speech is endowed with grace;
rightly has God given you an eternal blessing.
חֲגֽוֹר־חַרְבְּךָ֣ עַל־יָרֵ֣ךְ גִּבּ֑וֹר ה֝וֹדְךָ֗ וַהֲדָרֶֽךָ׃
Gird your sword upon your thigh, O hero,
in your splendor and glory;
וַהֲדָ֬רְךָ֨ ׀ צְלַ֬ח רְכַ֗ב עַֽל־דְּבַר־אֱ֭מֶת וְעַנְוָה־צֶ֑דֶק וְתוֹרְךָ֖ נוֹרָא֣וֹת יְמִינֶֽךָ׃
in your glory, win success;
ride on in the cause of truth and meekness and right;
and let your right hand lead you to awesome deeds.-a
חִצֶּ֗יךָ שְׁנ֫וּנִ֥ים עַ֭מִּים תַּחְתֶּ֣יךָ יִפְּל֑וּ בְּ֝לֵ֗ב אוֹיְבֵ֥י הַמֶּֽלֶךְ׃
Your arrows, sharpened,
[pierce] the breast of the king’s enemies;
peoples fall at your feet.-b
כִּסְאֲךָ֣ אֱ֭לֹהִים עוֹלָ֣ם וָעֶ֑ד שֵׁ֥בֶט מִ֝ישֹׁ֗ר שֵׁ֣בֶט מַלְכוּתֶֽךָ׃
Your divine throne-c is everlasting;
your royal scepter is a scepter of equity.

The footnote for this refers to 1 Chron. 29:23.
Solomon successfully took over the throne of the LORD as king instead of his father David


[Replying to Capbook in post #6]

This research should satisfy anyone concerned about the Hebrew language and what it says regarding this issue.