Christians: Does this embarrass you?

[Avoice]

Christians: Do you ever feel like you have been left 'holding the bag' having to defend the Christian Testament? Forced to come up with all sorts of torturous explanations to defend the writings of your religion? Respond to the following:
EXAMPLE:

BELOW IS QUOTE FROM GALATIONS AND THE PASSAGE IN GENESIS THAT GALATIANS REFERS TO.

"But the promises were spoken to Abraham and his seed. He does not say, And unto seeds, as of many; but as of one; And thy seed, which is Christ."

"Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father. And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed"

THE CLAIM: Galatians claims that it says seed not seeds. Therefore it means one seed meaning Jesus.
THE PROBLEM: In Hebrew, the word seed is written the same in the singular and the plural: ZERA. The same way the word sheep in English is the same for singular and plural.

THE QUESTION FOR CHRISTIANS: How do you defend Galations that claims if it meant more than one seed it would have said it. As if the word ZERA would say ZERAS if it meant plural. NO IT WOULDNT.
How does it feel having to conjuring up some explanation to save the ignorant writer of Galatians who didn't know that the word seed in Hebrew is the same in singular and in the plural

CHRISTIANS: YOU HAVE BEEN DECEIVED. ARE YOU ANGRY WITH ME FOR SHOWING YOU OR ANGRY THAT THE WRITER OF GALATIANS USED DECEPTION TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?

[EYR]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #158]

ANglo-SAxon Christians of England and USA and assimilated ones around the world are not rejected in these Last Days.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #158]

ANglo-SAxon Christians of England and USA and assimilated ones around the world are not rejected in these Last Days.

That is super neato! Glad you got that off your chest!
I'm guessing that you fail to realize that you are on a debate forum. Your words belong on a street corning being yelled at people's faces. Here, we are to debate. You can now get off of your soapbox.

[EYR]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #162]
The general consensus among psychologists and psychiatrists about people who need to have the last word is that they're either arrogant, or insecure, or angry, or egotistical. Couple those traits with a need to show power or control, and a not-so-pretty picture emerges.

I just say people like you are childish slaves of Satan.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #162]
The general consensus among psychologists and psychiatrists about people who need to have the last word is that they're either arrogant, or insecure, or angry, or egotistical. Couple those traits with a need to show power or control, and a not-so-pretty picture emerges.

I just say people like you are childish slaves of Satan.

Ad Hominem. (Attacking the person): This fallacy occurs when, instead of addressing someone's argument or position, you irrelevantly attack the person or some aspect of the person who is making the argument.
(Just trying to help you do better here).

Be well.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #7]

See...see what I mean. Look how you are left having to defend this. Calling it theological not grammatical.
It is quoting the Hebrew Scriptures and giving a false interpretation.

READ. It's about many not one!
TELL ME HOW THIS IS ABOUT A SINGLE SEED. Do you number a single seed? I feel sorry for Christians having to do acrobatics to make things into truth.

""And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered." (Gen. 13:16)

"And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be." (Gen. 15:5)

Look what you have to defend. You can't. Embarrassing

You aren't making sense.

[RBD]

[Replying to Clownboat in post #138]


You have yet to say a bible truth. The light will not penetrate your darkness because you use altered translations altered by satans will.

I had no idea that my darkness was so much more powerful than this light you speak of.

While I agree that pronouncing judgments is not an adequate argument about evidence, there is such a thing as someone's darkness being greater than any light.

Anyone can believe a lie, despite all the evidence contrary to it. People can willfully remain in the dark about most anything they want, if it suits their personal goal. People do it with family, society, politics, ideology, and even in a fight until beaten. And some of them even refuse to beliefe they are beaten.

Jesus calls it keeping our own light, that is great darkness indeed:

Mat 6:23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

This kind of darkness also applies to any literary analysis, when the only purpose is to find fault. In that case, no amount of grammatical evidence and literary light can shine through to affect the zealot's mind.

Jhn 1:5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

[RBD]

[Replying to RBD in post #151]

To say Jesus Christ is not the promised Messiah, is based entirely upone one's own personal unbelief, not upon any reading of old prophecies of Messiah.

Specific criteria are in section c:

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/ar ... he-messiah

1) He must be Jewish. (Deuteronomy. 17:15, Numbers 24:17)

2) He must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10) and a direct male descendant of King David (I Chronicles 17:11, Psalms 89:29-38, Jeremiah 33:17, II Samuel 7:12-16) and King Solomon. (I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18)

When He came in the flesh of the seed of David.

3) He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel. (Isaiah 27:12-13, Isaiah 11:12)

4) He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. (Micah 4:1)

5) He must bring world peace. (Isaiah 2:4, Isaiah 11:6, Micah 4:3)

6) He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one G-d. (Isaiah 11:9, Isaiah 40:5, Zephaniah 3:9)

When He comes a second time to inherit all nations, and reign from Jerusalem for a thousand years.

Saying Messiah must do all prophesied things with only one coming to earth, is not ever confirmed in Old prophecy of His coming. No prophet ever says Messiah will only come once.

It also rejects the prophets beginning with Moses, who speak of the suffering Messiah.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


An examination of the contradictory accounts of Jesus’ genealogy demonstrates a number of difficulties with the fulfillment of the second criterion. Specifically, the New Testament claims that Jesus did not have a physical father. The Jewish Scriptures, however, clearly states that a person’s genealogy and tribal membership is transmitted exclusively through one’s physical father (Numbers 1:18, Jeremiah 33:17). Therefore, Jesus cannot possibly be a descendant of the tribe of Judah nor of King David and King Solomon.

Beginning with an unproven accusation, does not result in an objective investigation.

Jesus was made of the seed of David by the womb of Mary, a daughter of David. Being a woman does not disannul being born of the seed of a man.

To demand Messiah born of a woman by the consummation seed of her husband alone, is also to deny any virgin birth prophesied by their own prophet. And so, anti-NT Jews must also make Isaiah a false prophet:

Deu 18:21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.


As usual, superficial readings and negative conclusions foreordained by sole intent to find fault.

And since the Author does write His own Book so perfectly united in all His words, then anyone seeking fault in one place, will also find themselves finding fault in other unintended places.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to RBD in post #167]

When He comes a second time to inherit all nations, and reign from Jerusalem for a thousand years.

There's no prophecy of the Jewish Messiah coming a "second" time.

Jesus was made of the seed of David by the womb of Mary, a daughter of David. Being a woman does not disannul being born of the seed of a man.

In Jewish lineage, the mother conveys Jewishness. The father conveys tribal affiliation. And the Christian Bible tells us that Mary was descended from David through Nathan; the Messiah has to be descended from David through Solomon.

To demand Messiah born of a woman by the seed of her husband, is to also deny any virgin birth prophesied by their own prophet. And so, anti-NT Jews must also make Isaiah a false prophet

No prophet of theirs prophesied that the Messiah would be born to a virgin.
https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/ar ... rgin-birth

[RugMatic]

Christians: Do you ever feel like you have been left 'holding the bag' having to defend the Christian Testament? Forced to come up with all sorts of torturous explanations to defend the writings of your religion? Respond to the following:
EXAMPLE:

BELOW IS QUOTE FROM GALATIONS AND THE PASSAGE IN GENESIS THAT GALATIANS REFERS TO.

"But the promises were spoken to Abraham and his seed. He does not say, And unto seeds, as of many; but as of one; And thy seed, which is Christ."

"Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father. And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed"

THE CLAIM: Galatians claims that it says seed not seeds. Therefore it means one seed meaning Jesus.
THE PROBLEM: In Hebrew, the word seed is written the same in the singular and the plural: ZERA. The same way the word sheep in English is the same for singular and plural.

THE QUESTION FOR CHRISTIANS: How do you defend Galations that claims if it meant more than one seed it would have said it. As if the word ZERA would say ZERAS if it meant plural. NO IT WOULDNT.
How does it feel having to conjuring up some explanation to save the ignorant writer of Galatians who didn't know that the word seed in Hebrew is the same in singular and in the plural

CHRISTIANS: YOU HAVE BEEN DECEIVED. ARE YOU ANGRY WITH ME FOR SHOWING YOU OR ANGRY THAT THE WRITER OF GALATIANS USED DECEPTION TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?

Zera comes from the verb zur, to ejaculate. It is true that zera means sperm and seed, neither of which is plural in Ivrit/Hebrew.

However, Paul was taught by the great and final Talmudic Rav Gamaliel ( May he rest in Eden). Perhaps Gamaliel lied to Paul and said zera is Z'rot or Z'ra-im in a jestingly hypothetical plural. Or...perish the thought, Acts lied about Gamaliel teaching Paul?


Alas, religious stuff is confusing

[Clownboat]

I had no idea that my darkness was so much more powerful than this light you speak of.

While I agree that pronouncing judgments is not an adequate argument about evidence, there is such a thing as someone's darkness being greater than any light.

What makes my darkness so much more powerful than your gods light?

Anyone can believe a lie, despite all the evidence contrary to it. People can willfully remain in the dark about most anything they want, if it suits their personal goal. People do it with family, society, politics, ideology, and even in a fight until beaten. And some of them even refuse to beliefe they are beaten.

To make this accurate. A lie can only be believed if it is not known to be a lie. Once it is known to be a lie, belief will be suspended, but honestly, I have no idea why you took the time to type these words. Can you elucidate?

Jesus calls it keeping our own light, that is great darkness indeed:

Mat 6:23But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

If the light is darkness?
To correct you, it is the unknown author of Matthew that made this claim, but even if Jesus made it, what would that have to do with this power I apparently have over your gods light?

This kind of darkness also applies to any literary analysis, when the only purpose is to find fault. In that case, no amount of grammatical evidence and literary light can shine through to affect the zealot's mind.

Again, this does not come close to addressing my power of darkness that I apparently have over your gods light. Perhaps you quoted my post by mistake? I ask because I'm asking a specific question about a god concept relaying a message for humanity and I don't see how asking for clarification could be construed as trying to find fault.

Jhn 1:5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Not in my darkness as I have been informed. This light you mention is unable to penetrate the Supreme Light Defeating Clownboat the Destroyer of Creators Lights, light.

Perhaps this scripture has more to do with not being able to comprehend that an all powerful, all knowing God with a message for everyone would not require pastors, priests or theologians to correctly relay the said message. Was the above all just a distraction from this point? If you think it is logical for an all powerful, all knowing God to deliver his message to everyone via such a way, can you explain why? It might be better to ignore my all powerful darkness when you address this.

Heck, I'm not even sure if I should believe you guys at this point (that I have this power), but the moniker is pretty cool.