Number of Creation Accounts

[Difflugia]

In another thread, we have this assertion:

There are not two different creation accounts. Chapter one of Genesis gives us the outline of God's creation. Chapter 2 just fills in some details.

Question for debate: Are Genesis 1 and 2 two different creation accounts by two different authors, a unified account by a single author, or something else entirely?

[POI]

I have distain for the sport of baseball and will debate whether it is a fun sport to watch (as subjective as it is). But, I'm not going to spend any significant part of my life discussing a such a matter. Years, years, and years talking, researching, and debating a sport that I don't like and care nothing about. But hey, we are all different.

Thanks for the strawman. I don't have 'distain' for Christianity. I just now find it illogical. I used to be one myself. I still have many close family members who are 'Christian'. Another reason I come here, as I forgot to mention, is because 'Christianity' is all around me. It is still the majority belief position in the county in which I reside within, the U.S. Another reason I spend time here would be the same reason I would join a "leprechauns" forum arena if the majority view around me was belief in leprechauns, which I heard all around me on a daily basis but did not believe myself. In order not to ruffle the feathers of my own family and friends, I come here to engage anonymous believer's position(s). This arena becomes an outlet to have my position(s) challenged without driving a permanent wedge with the ones I love. At the end of the day, you and I will eventually part ways, and there will be no love loss, because it remains anonymous.

"Maybe you need to convince yourself against your own convictions...and you use these debates as a confirmation bias against those Holy Spirit conviction." Let's throw that one in there too.

LOL! This would be the pot calling the kettle black, for sure. Your belief preservation is quite evident, in the fact that you refuse the engage the 'Evilution' thread. Post 118 is still waiting...

[benchwarmer]

Because some of us like to counter bad arguments, bad ways of thinking, and just wrong information.

Yeah, it sounds good.

Of all the atheists/agnostics/unbelievers on this forum that you know of..

How many of their bad arguments have you countered?

Just did it 5 seconds ago:

[post #54]

How many have their bad ways of thinking (or wrong information) have you challenged or corrected?

I haven't been keeping track, but it happens every now and then. See above.

I'll wait.

Well, at least you didn't have to wait long. Now what?

I can name one bad argument/position right now from an unbeliever on this forum, that I doubt you'll challenge.

We seem to be missing the link....

Oh, I get it, you only challenge or correct the positions of believers...not atheists.

Bzzzt. See above.

Some of us do this because we once believed some of this stuff and would like to share with the readers our perspective and reasoning.

But from our (believers) perceptive, no reasoning will ever be good enough to leave the faith.

Untrue. I was a believer. I left the faith.

If your reasons ain't good enough for God, then it ain't good enough for us..so save it.

There, I just saved you time and effort.

I'm sure that was very convincing to readers.

Often times in these debates some of our interlocutors think we are trying to convince them of something. This is wrong in my case. I'm trying to convince readers of my position.

Gotcha. Ok, we are convinced of your position.

You have us persuaded and convinced of your position that God does not exist and Jesus is not Lord and Savior.


There, saved you more time and effort.

If you think so.

I'm under no illusions that I'm going to change the mind of the person I'm debating (though I guess that would be nice every now and then), but the main focus is to provide readers of these debates with both sides.

We got it.

If you(generic you) are focused on me (your debate opponent), then I suggest you are going about this wrong. Give the best argument and evidence for your position that will hopefully convince readers. The rest is up to them and out of our hands.

The Bible says what it says. It is on your hands whether you want to take it or leave it.

You left it.

Yes I did and in these debates I'm happy to share exactly why in any given topic. That's why I'm here. Hopefully that's cleared up your confusion why unbelievers are here.

End of discussion.

You're welcome to stop at any time you think readers have your position and further discussion won't help.

[SiNcE_1985]

Just did it 5 seconds ago:

[post #54]

5 secs ago? So, well after the charge of you NOT doing it, you did it?

I haven't been keeping track, but it happens every now and then. See above.

Well, at least you didn't have to wait long. Now what?

After the fact..

We seem to be missing the link....

I didn't provide it.

Untrue. I was a believer. I left the faith.

Christianity tells us that no true believer leaves the faith.

I'm sure that was very convincing to readers.

Well..

Yes I did and in these debates I'm happy to share exactly why in any given topic. That's why I'm here. Hopefully that's cleared up your confusion why unbelievers are here.

So basically, you are giving us answers to questions that no one asked you.

Do I have you correct?

You're welcome to stop at any time you think readers have your position and further discussion won't help.

I am here to provide apologetics against people who, like yourself, attack my God, my Savior, my Holy Book.

These attacks come in various forms and I am here to defend against it all, as much as I can.

I also defend my faith against people who are spreading false teachings and thus corrupting and polluting the message, the good news (Gospel)...which is why I go at Jehovah's Witnesses.

So, I will stop, once it stops. And it won't stop until, you stop.

[benchwarmer]

Just did it 5 seconds ago:

[post #54]

5 secs ago? So, well after the charge of you NOT doing it, you did it?

I will leave it to readers to actually go to the discussion I pointed to and see I was involved before this if they care to check facts. If you feel this is helping your cause, good luck to you.

[SiNcE_1985]

[Replying to POI in post #11]


I responded to this post and do not see it.

[Difflugia]

To answer the OP question; a unified account by a single author.

The interesting part of the discussion is what evidence led you to think this (if, indeed, evidence it was).

But question to you: Does the answer to this question effect whether you will remain an unbeliever, or become a believer?

No. Why should it? That's like asking if the literary details of The Metamorphosis affect whether people can really turn into giant insects.

If, in your opinion, a satisfactory answer is given to your question, would you become a believer?

The question's about the literary provenance of Genesis 1-2, not whether magic is real.

If the answer is no, then the answer to the question is irrelevant.

Is it? You seem to be working awfully hard to keep us from having the conversation. That seems a peculiar reaction to something that you find irrelevant.

Still can't wrap my mind around why unbelievers have these urges to invest time/energy with stuff (Christianity) they don't believe in.

Do you find book clubs equally confusing and terrifying?

The Bible says what it says. It is on your hands whether you want to take it or leave it.

You know, the Bible is what this discussion is nominally about.

End of discussion.

It doesn't have to be.

I have distain for the sport of baseball and will debate whether it is a fun sport to watch (as subjective as it is).

Do you also find people talking about baseball and try to convince them to stop? That must be fun at parties.

Years, years, and years talking, researching, and debating a sport that I don't like and care nothing about.

Is that how you feel about the Bible, too? Is that what's behind the repeated attempts at deflection?

"Maybe you need to convince yourself against your own convictions...and you use these debates as a confirmation bias against those Holy Spirit conviction."

"This conversation has no emotional impact on me, but please, please stop having it."

Christianity tells us that no true believer leaves the faith.

John Calvin said that, not "Christianity."

So basically, you are giving us answers to questions that no one asked you.

But, somebody did ask.

I am here to provide apologetics against people who, like yourself, attack my God, my Savior, my Holy Book.

Your apologetic approach seems to be, "Stop talking about my Holy Book and pay attention to me!"

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to Difflugia in post #16]

Just a curiosity how the quotes are showing up as from We_Are_Venom instead of SiNcE_1985. Some weird glitch with the database maybe?

[Difflugia]

[Replying to Difflugia in post #16]

Just a curiosity how the quotes are showing up as from We_Are_Venom instead of SiNcE_1985. Some weird glitch with the database maybe?

Nah. That's an intentional glitch with my copy and paste .

[SiNcE_1985]

[Replying to Difflugia in post #16]

Just a curiosity how the quotes are showing up as from We_Are_Venom instead of SiNcE_1985. Some weird glitch with the database maybe?

They are coming up as the same, because Difflugia knows that Bruce Wayne and Batman are the same person.

[SiNcE_1985]

The interesting part of the discussion is what evidence led you to think this (if, indeed, evidence it was).

The other interesting part of the discussion is, why does an unbeliever care, and should an unbeliever care about itty bitty particulars within a religion that he does not believe in.

No. Why should it? That's like asking if the literary details of The Metamorphosis affect whether people can really turn into giant insects.

People who don't believe in the Metamorphosis don't usually spend a significant part of their lives thinking about it, discussing it, or debating it.

The question's about the literary provenance of Genesis 1-2, not whether magic is real.

And I question the relevancy of the question, to an unbeliever.

Is it? You seem to be working awfully hard to keep us from having the conversation. That seems a peculiar reaction to something that you find irrelevant.

You seem to be focused awfully hard on a religion you do not believe in.

Do you find book clubs equally confusing and terrifying?

?

You know, the Bible is what this discussion is nominally about.

Right, and if you leave it, leave it.

Do you also find people talking about baseball and try to convince them to stop? That must be fun at parties.

I will ask anyone; if you don't believe in X and it isn't effecting your life, why are you so heavily investing in it?

Is that how you feel about the Bible, too? Is that what's behind the repeated attempts at deflection?

I never deflect.

"This conversation has no emotional impact on me, but please, please stop having it."

But it does, though.

John Calvin said that, not "Christianity."

I wasn't aware of that..but I am aware of the Scripture which states it.

But, somebody did ask.

Then I'm sorry I missed it.

Your apologetic approach seems to be, "Stop talking about my Holy Book and pay attention to me!"

Not at all. I understand the fact that unbelievers are skeptical, and some of them have legitimate questions & concerns about the Christian faith.

But some of these questions and thread topics are sensationalized..and shouldn't be the least of concerned for an unbeliever...such as the question of the OP.