CULTURAL CHRISTIANITY

[William]

Exploring the distinction between cultural identification with Christianity and living according to the teachings of Christ .
viewtopic.php?p=1126768#p1126768
From the link.

otseng. - Do you regularly talk with God and speak the same language with God?
- Is there a difference between how you live and what the Bible commands?
- Do you attend church and in fellowship with a community of believers?
- Do you know anything intimate about God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit?
- Is there any interaction with God and the church and reaching the lost?
- Do you hide your Christian convictions? Does anybody even know you're a Christian?
- Are you producing any godly fruit in your life?

____________
Reflecting on the Irony of the "Fraudulent Christian" Analogy

I appreciated the thoughtful comparison otseng made between the I-130 process for marriage-based immigration and the concept of being a "bona fide" Christian. It's a striking analogy, and it does bring to light the importance of authenticity, whether in the eyes of the state or within one's spiritual life.
However, as I reflected on this analogy, I found that it opened the door to a larger conversation about the irony inherent in such comparisons, especially when we consider the broader history of Christianity.
If we look at the history of Christianity, particularly in contexts like the founding and expansion of America, we see that many of the methods used by those who called themselves Christians were far from the teachings of Jesus. Christianity, as a political force, was often employed in ways that contradict the very values attributed to Christvalues like humility, peace, and love for one's neighbor.
The acquisition of land through violent conquest, the displacement of Native peoples, and the subsequent production of wealth are examples that dont align with Jesus' message.

This raises an interesting question: How does one reconcile the analogy of a "fraudulent Christian" with the historical record of Christianity itself? It seems that the term "Christian" became more of a political label than a spiritual one, and in that sense, the use of analogies like this one becomes somewhat ironic. The very institution of Christianity, as history shows, has often acted in ways that could be deemed inauthentic when compared to the teachings of Christ.

Further, its worth considering that Jesus never referred to his followers as Christians, nor did he establish the religious identity that later developed around his name. In fact, one might argue that Christianity, as an organized religion, has drifted so far from its original message that those who genuinely wish to follow Jesus' teachings would be better off not identifying as Christians at all.

So while otsengs' analogy makes sense in the context of individual believers, it inadvertently highlights a larger, more complex irony: that the institution of Christianity itself, through its entanglements with power and politics, could be seen as the very definition of a "fraudulent" representation of Christ's message.

Perhaps it's worth reflecting on how these contradictions play out, not only in the history of Christianity but also in the way the faith is practiced today. Does the modern-day Christian identity align with the simplicity and integrity of Jesus' original teachings? Or has it been shaped more by political and cultural forces that, over time, have distorted its core message?

Question for debate.

Are the majority of people who identify as Christians actually 'Cultural Christians,' and if so, are they at risk of being judged as 'fraudulent' by the very standards outlined in Matthew 7:21-23?

[Bible_Student]

... Is discipleship really about carrying the label "Christian," or is it about embodying Jesus teachings, regardless of what history has attached to the term?

The real question might be: would Jesus view this individual or group as among his genuine followers?

[POI]

... Is discipleship really about carrying the label "Christian," or is it about embodying Jesus teachings, regardless of what history has attached to the term?

The real question might be: would Jesus view this individual or group as among his genuine followers?

Does a "genuine follower" shun the ones who no longer follow JW doctrine, or not?

Does a "genuine follower" refuse lifesaving blood transfusions, or not?

Are JW's the genuine followers? Not according to Catholics:

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print ... -witnesses

Notable advice given in this link:

What should you do the next time they show up on your doorstep? I recommend three simple responses:

1. Dont slam the door in their faces. They have been taught to expect that response, so when you do that it only confirms in their minds what the WTS has taught them.

2. Thank them for their time and concern for your spiritual well-being. Always be charitable. Let them know, however, that you already have a belief system that you know to be the truth. To help them grasp the reality of your statement, you might ask them, "If I attempted to convince you to leave the WTS, would you?"

3. Pray for them after they leave. Ask the Holy Spirit to break through the WTS conditioning and indoctrination to which they have been subjected.

[Bible_Student]

... Is discipleship really about carrying the label "Christian," or is it about embodying Jesus teachings, regardless of what history has attached to the term?

The real question might be: would Jesus view this individual or group as among his genuine followers?

Does a "genuine follower" shun the ones who no longer follow JW doctrine, or not?

Does a "genuine follower" refuse lifesaving blood transfusions, or not?

You'll need to wait for the day of judgment to find out the answer.

In the meantime, it's crucial to understand these teachings of Jesus to gain insight into his mindset:

Matt. 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples: "If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and keep following me. 25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 Really, what good will it do a man if he gains the whole world but loses his life? Or what will a man give in exchange for his life? 27 For the Son of man is to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will repay each one according to his behavior.

I appreciate your inquiry about what Jesus deems essential to be his disciple and for allowing me to discuss his teachings.

[POI]

You'll need to wait for the day of judgment to find out the answer.

If you honestly have no idea, then why follow any doctrine at all? JW's shun anyone who practices descent. JW's also refuse blood transfusions. I don't think Jesus would appreciate your non-answer - answer. You already know the answer, based upon the doctrine in which you already follow. Unless you are practicing the JW lifestyle, completely buffet style? Do you follow the Watchtower ruleset, or not?

[Bible_Student]

You'll need to wait for the day of judgment to find out the answer.

If you honestly have no idea, then why follow any doctrine at all? JW's shun anyone who practices descent. JW's also refuse blood transfusions. I don't think Jesus would appreciate your non-answer - answer. You already know the answer, based upon the doctrine in which you already follow. Unless you are practicing the JW lifestyle, completely buffet style? Do you follow the Watchtower ruleset, or not?

I appreciate your thoughts on my lifestyle, but I'll leave the judgment to Jesus. Your concern is noted, though it's not needed.

It might be more beneficial for you to delve into Jesus' teachings as documented in the Bible. This understanding could place you in a better position when the time comes. I don't pass judgment on you; Jesus will do so based on his teachings.

[William]

... Is discipleship really about carrying the label "Christian," or is it about embodying Jesus teachings, regardless of what history has attached to the term?

The real question might be: would Jesus view this individual or group as among his genuine followers?

Thats an interesting question, but it seems to shift away from the main point I was raising. My question was about whether discipleship is truly about carrying the label "Christian" (including any of all of the Christian denominations) or about embodying Jesus' teachings, regardless of the historical baggage attached to that term. What matters more in discipleship: the label (Catholic, Jehovah's Witness et al) or the lived practice of Jesus' values?

[POI]

You'll need to wait for the day of judgment to find out the answer.

If you honestly have no idea, then why follow any doctrine at all? JW's shun anyone who practices descent. JW's also refuse blood transfusions. I don't think Jesus would appreciate your non-answer - answer. You already know the answer, based upon the doctrine in which you already follow. Unless you are practicing the JW lifestyle, completely buffet style? Do you follow the Watchtower ruleset, or not?

I appreciate your thoughts on my lifestyle, but I'll leave the judgment to Jesus. Your concern is noted, though it's not needed.

It might be more beneficial for you to delve into Jesus' teachings as documented in the Bible. This understanding could place you in a better position when the time comes. I don't pass judgment on you; Jesus will do so based on his teachings.

Your avoidance to my direct questions speaks volumes. I'm not passing judgement. I'm asking you IF you follow Watchtower doctrine and you refuse to answer.

Do you follow the Watchtower rules, or not? If you do, then you shun and also avoid lifesaving medical treatments for you and your family. If you do not follow Watchtower doctrine, then you have invented your own sub-section of an already established "Cafeteria Christianity", which is the JW. This is not a judgement, but instead objective observation of the facts as I laid out.

[Bible_Student]

... Is discipleship really about carrying the label "Christian," or is it about embodying Jesus teachings, regardless of what history has attached to the term?

The real question might be: would Jesus view this individual or group as among his genuine followers?

Thats an interesting question, but it seems to shift away from the main point I was raising. My question was about whether discipleship is truly about carrying the label "Christian" (including any of all of the Christian denominations) or about embodying Jesus' teachings, regardless of the historical baggage attached to that term. What matters more in discipleship: the label (Catholic, Jehovah's Witness et al) or the lived practice of Jesus' values?

In the first century, the term "Christian" was reserved for true followers of Jesus. Using this term in any other context is not relevant, IMHO.

As Jehovah's Witnesses, we hold that the term was employed in alignment with God's will for a distinct purpose.

[Bible_Student]

You'll need to wait for the day of judgment to find out the answer.

If you honestly have no idea, then why follow any doctrine at all? JW's shun anyone who practices descent. JW's also refuse blood transfusions. I don't think Jesus would appreciate your non-answer - answer. You already know the answer, based upon the doctrine in which you already follow. Unless you are practicing the JW lifestyle, completely buffet style? Do you follow the Watchtower ruleset, or not?

I appreciate your thoughts on my lifestyle, but I'll leave the judgment to Jesus. Your concern is noted, though it's not needed.

It might be more beneficial for you to delve into Jesus' teachings as documented in the Bible. This understanding could place you in a better position when the time comes. I don't pass judgment on you; Jesus will do so based on his teachings.

Your avoidance to my direct questions speaks volumes. I'm not passing judgement. I'm asking you IF you follow Watchtower doctrine and you refuse to answer.

Do you follow the Watchtower rules, or not? If you do, then you shun and also avoid lifesaving medical treatments for you and your family. If you do not follow Watchtower doctrine, then you have invented your own sub-section of an already established "Cafeteria Christianity", which is the JW. This is not a judgement, but instead objective observation of the facts as I laid out.

My personal life isn't the subject we're addressing.

If you're curious about how Jehovah's Witnesses approach daily life and their perspectives, you're welcome to visit a Kingdom Hall nearby. There, you can observe us firsthand from the front rows.

Thank you for your interest, and I wish you a wonderful day.

[POI]

You'll need to wait for the day of judgment to find out the answer.

If you honestly have no idea, then why follow any doctrine at all? JW's shun anyone who practices descent. JW's also refuse blood transfusions. I don't think Jesus would appreciate your non-answer - answer. You already know the answer, based upon the doctrine in which you already follow. Unless you are practicing the JW lifestyle, completely buffet style? Do you follow the Watchtower ruleset, or not?

I appreciate your thoughts on my lifestyle, but I'll leave the judgment to Jesus. Your concern is noted, though it's not needed.

It might be more beneficial for you to delve into Jesus' teachings as documented in the Bible. This understanding could place you in a better position when the time comes. I don't pass judgment on you; Jesus will do so based on his teachings.

Your avoidance to my direct questions speaks volumes. I'm not passing judgement. I'm asking you IF you follow Watchtower doctrine and you refuse to answer.

Do you follow the Watchtower rules, or not? If you do, then you shun and also avoid lifesaving medical treatments for you and your family. If you do not follow Watchtower doctrine, then you have invented your own sub-section of an already established "Cafeteria Christianity", which is the JW. This is not a judgement, but instead objective observation of the facts as I laid out.

My personal life isn't the subject we're addressing.

If you're curious about how Jehovah's Witnesses approach daily life and their perspectives, you're welcome to visit a Kingdom Hall nearby. There, you can observe us firsthand from the front rows.

Thank you for your interest, and I wish you a wonderful day.

"Abort the mission! He's on to us. Move on to the next house.".

I'm asking you because this is the practices of the Watchtower. Your lack in response tells us that you follow these policies. Do you think Jesus would be okay with those who shun?