Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

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onewithhim
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Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

Jesus said that we all must love Jehovah our God and worship only Him. He stated clearly that his Father was the only true God (John 17:3); he didn't say that we are the only true God. In many places in the Scriptures he calls the Father "my God."

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3, KJV)

"Jesus saith unto her [Mary], Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father, but go to my brethren and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God. (John 20:17, KJV)

"At the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted: My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Mark 15:34, KJV)

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall no more go out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." (Revelation 3:12, KJV)

I think Jesus wants us to recognize that his Father, Jehovah, is God, and he is God's Son. (John 10:36) What do you make of this?

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Re: Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

Post #311

Post by Capbook »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:43 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:33 am ... Hapagmos may mean not only to grasp something forcefully which one does not have but also to retain by force what one possesses, it is possible to translate Phil 2:6 in two quite different ways. ....
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)
Agreed. The immediate and larger context of the bible indicates which of the two ways is best. Jesus never being identified as Almighty God indicates that the most suitable way of the two possibilities is "to grasps forcefully [that] which one does not have"
I also colored red my point above.

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Re: Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

Post #312

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 7:56 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:43 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:33 am ... Hapagmos may mean not only to grasp something forcefully which one does not have but also to retain by force what one possesses, it is possible to translate Phil 2:6 in two quite different ways. ....
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)
Agreed. The immediate and larger context of the bible indicates which of the two ways is best. Jesus never being identified as Almighty God indicates that the most suitable way of the two possibilities is "to grasps forcefully [that] which one does not have"
I also colored red my point above.
As you say, Phil.2:6 can be translated in two different ways. Our contention that it is to be translated as Christ did NOT have equality with God has equal validity in scholarly circles.

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Re: Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

Post #313

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 9:37 am
Capbook wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 7:56 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:43 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:33 am ... Hapagmos may mean not only to grasp something forcefully which one does not have but also to retain by force what one possesses, it is possible to translate Phil 2:6 in two quite different ways. ....
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)
Agreed. The immediate and larger context of the bible indicates which of the two ways is best. Jesus never being identified as Almighty God indicates that the most suitable way of the two possibilities is "to grasps forcefully [that] which one does not have"
I also colored red my point above.
As you say, Phil.2:6 can be translated in two different ways. Our contention that it is to be translated as Christ did NOT have equality with God has equal validity in scholarly circles.
Scholars views are man's interpretation. Bible text supported by Bible text is what I prefer.
Phil 2:6 supported by Rev 1:8,17 and 18. Jesus the Almighty who is to come, died but made alive.

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Re: Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

Post #314

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 31, 2024 4:47 am
onewithhim wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 9:37 am
Capbook wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 7:56 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:43 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:33 am ... Hapagmos may mean not only to grasp something forcefully which one does not have but also to retain by force what one possesses, it is possible to translate Phil 2:6 in two quite different ways. ....
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)
Agreed. The immediate and larger context of the bible indicates which of the two ways is best. Jesus never being identified as Almighty God indicates that the most suitable way of the two possibilities is "to grasps forcefully [that] which one does not have"
I also colored red my point above.
As you say, Phil.2:6 can be translated in two different ways. Our contention that it is to be translated as Christ did NOT have equality with God has equal validity in scholarly circles.
Scholars views are man's interpretation. Bible text supported by Bible text is what I prefer.
Phil 2:6 supported by Rev 1:8,17 and 18. Jesus the Almighty who is to come, died but made alive.
I have posted before that Philippians 2:6 does not say that Jesus considered himself to be equal with God. He was said to not want to grasp or forcefully take any condition that would put himself on God's level.

[Christ Jesus] "who, though he was in the form of God [Spirit] did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." (Phil.2:6, Revised Standard Version) To "grasp" here has the meaning of to take forcefully, something he didn't have before. So THIS Bible text supports the idea that Jesus is not equal to God and he wouldn't even consider it.

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Re: Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

Post #315

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 2:46 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 31, 2024 4:47 am
onewithhim wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 9:37 am
Capbook wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 7:56 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:43 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:33 am ... Hapagmos may mean not only to grasp something forcefully which one does not have but also to retain by force what one possesses, it is possible to translate Phil 2:6 in two quite different ways. ....
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)
Agreed. The immediate and larger context of the bible indicates which of the two ways is best. Jesus never being identified as Almighty God indicates that the most suitable way of the two possibilities is "to grasps forcefully [that] which one does not have"
I also colored red my point above.
As you say, Phil.2:6 can be translated in two different ways. Our contention that it is to be translated as Christ did NOT have equality with God has equal validity in scholarly circles.
Scholars views are man's interpretation. Bible text supported by Bible text is what I prefer.
Phil 2:6 supported by Rev 1:8,17 and 18. Jesus the Almighty who is to come, died but made alive.
I have posted before that Philippians 2:6 does not say that Jesus considered himself to be equal with God. He was said to not want to grasp or forcefully take any condition that would put himself on God's level.

[Christ Jesus] "who, though he was in the form of God [Spirit] did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." (Phil.2:6, Revised Standard Version) To "grasp" here has the meaning of to take forcefully, something he didn't have before. So THIS Bible text supports the idea that Jesus is not equal to God and he wouldn't even consider it.
How do you interpret this phrase in Phil 2:6 and 7;
1. Jesus in the "form of a servant," does it mean He is man or not?
2. Jesus in the "form of God," can you use the same logic or not? And why?

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Re: Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

Post #316

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 4:04 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 2:46 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 31, 2024 4:47 am
onewithhim wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 9:37 am
Capbook wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 7:56 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:43 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:33 am ... Hapagmos may mean not only to grasp something forcefully which one does not have but also to retain by force what one possesses, it is possible to translate Phil 2:6 in two quite different ways. ....
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)
Agreed. The immediate and larger context of the bible indicates which of the two ways is best. Jesus never being identified as Almighty God indicates that the most suitable way of the two possibilities is "to grasps forcefully [that] which one does not have"
I also colored red my point above.
As you say, Phil.2:6 can be translated in two different ways. Our contention that it is to be translated as Christ did NOT have equality with God has equal validity in scholarly circles.
Scholars views are man's interpretation. Bible text supported by Bible text is what I prefer.
Phil 2:6 supported by Rev 1:8,17 and 18. Jesus the Almighty who is to come, died but made alive.
I have posted before that Philippians 2:6 does not say that Jesus considered himself to be equal with God. He was said to not want to grasp or forcefully take any condition that would put himself on God's level.

[Christ Jesus] "who, though he was in the form of God [Spirit] did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." (Phil.2:6, Revised Standard Version) To "grasp" here has the meaning of to take forcefully, something he didn't have before. So THIS Bible text supports the idea that Jesus is not equal to God and he wouldn't even consider it.
How do you interpret this phrase in Phil 2:6 and 7;
1. Jesus in the "form of a servant," does it mean He is man or not?
2. Jesus in the "form of God," can you use the same logic or not? And why?
This speaks of his life on earth and also in heaven. On earth he was a perfect MAN, in the form of humans.
In heaven Jesus is SPIRIT, as God is, so he is in the form of God. (All spirit beings are not God.)

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Re: Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

Post #317

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:43 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 4:04 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 2:46 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 31, 2024 4:47 am
onewithhim wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 9:37 am
Capbook wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 7:56 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:43 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:33 am ... Hapagmos may mean not only to grasp something forcefully which one does not have but also to retain by force what one possesses, it is possible to translate Phil 2:6 in two quite different ways. ....
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)
Agreed. The immediate and larger context of the bible indicates which of the two ways is best. Jesus never being identified as Almighty God indicates that the most suitable way of the two possibilities is "to grasps forcefully [that] which one does not have"
I also colored red my point above.
As you say, Phil.2:6 can be translated in two different ways. Our contention that it is to be translated as Christ did NOT have equality with God has equal validity in scholarly circles.
Scholars views are man's interpretation. Bible text supported by Bible text is what I prefer.
Phil 2:6 supported by Rev 1:8,17 and 18. Jesus the Almighty who is to come, died but made alive.
I have posted before that Philippians 2:6 does not say that Jesus considered himself to be equal with God. He was said to not want to grasp or forcefully take any condition that would put himself on God's level.

[Christ Jesus] "who, though he was in the form of God [Spirit] did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." (Phil.2:6, Revised Standard Version) To "grasp" here has the meaning of to take forcefully, something he didn't have before. So THIS Bible text supports the idea that Jesus is not equal to God and he wouldn't even consider it.
How do you interpret this phrase in Phil 2:6 and 7;
1. Jesus in the "form of a servant," does it mean He is man or not?
2. Jesus in the "form of God," can you use the same logic or not? And why?
This speaks of his life on earth and also in heaven. On earth he was a perfect MAN, in the form of humans.
In heaven Jesus is SPIRIT, as God is, so he is in the form of God. (All spirit beings are not God.)
Where is Jesus when the Father said to Jesus, "therefore God"? Heaven or earth? (Heb 1:9)

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Re: Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

Post #318

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:27 am
onewithhim wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:43 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 4:04 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 2:46 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 31, 2024 4:47 am
onewithhim wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 9:37 am
Capbook wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 7:56 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:43 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:33 am ... Hapagmos may mean not only to grasp something forcefully which one does not have but also to retain by force what one possesses, it is possible to translate Phil 2:6 in two quite different ways. ....
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)
Agreed. The immediate and larger context of the bible indicates which of the two ways is best. Jesus never being identified as Almighty God indicates that the most suitable way of the two possibilities is "to grasps forcefully [that] which one does not have"
I also colored red my point above.
As you say, Phil.2:6 can be translated in two different ways. Our contention that it is to be translated as Christ did NOT have equality with God has equal validity in scholarly circles.
Scholars views are man's interpretation. Bible text supported by Bible text is what I prefer.
Phil 2:6 supported by Rev 1:8,17 and 18. Jesus the Almighty who is to come, died but made alive.
I have posted before that Philippians 2:6 does not say that Jesus considered himself to be equal with God. He was said to not want to grasp or forcefully take any condition that would put himself on God's level.

[Christ Jesus] "who, though he was in the form of God [Spirit] did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." (Phil.2:6, Revised Standard Version) To "grasp" here has the meaning of to take forcefully, something he didn't have before. So THIS Bible text supports the idea that Jesus is not equal to God and he wouldn't even consider it.
How do you interpret this phrase in Phil 2:6 and 7;
1. Jesus in the "form of a servant," does it mean He is man or not?
2. Jesus in the "form of God," can you use the same logic or not? And why?
This speaks of his life on earth and also in heaven. On earth he was a perfect MAN, in the form of humans.
In heaven Jesus is SPIRIT, as God is, so he is in the form of God. (All spirit beings are not God.)
Where is Jesus when the Father said to Jesus, "therefore God"? Heaven or earth? (Heb 1:9)
Heaven

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Re: Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

Post #319

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 2:01 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:27 am
onewithhim wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:43 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 4:04 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 2:46 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 31, 2024 4:47 am
onewithhim wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 9:37 am
Capbook wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 7:56 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:43 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:33 am ... Hapagmos may mean not only to grasp something forcefully which one does not have but also to retain by force what one possesses, it is possible to translate Phil 2:6 in two quite different ways. ....
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)
Agreed. The immediate and larger context of the bible indicates which of the two ways is best. Jesus never being identified as Almighty God indicates that the most suitable way of the two possibilities is "to grasps forcefully [that] which one does not have"
I also colored red my point above.
As you say, Phil.2:6 can be translated in two different ways. Our contention that it is to be translated as Christ did NOT have equality with God has equal validity in scholarly circles.
Scholars views are man's interpretation. Bible text supported by Bible text is what I prefer.
Phil 2:6 supported by Rev 1:8,17 and 18. Jesus the Almighty who is to come, died but made alive.
I have posted before that Philippians 2:6 does not say that Jesus considered himself to be equal with God. He was said to not want to grasp or forcefully take any condition that would put himself on God's level.

[Christ Jesus] "who, though he was in the form of God [Spirit] did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." (Phil.2:6, Revised Standard Version) To "grasp" here has the meaning of to take forcefully, something he didn't have before. So THIS Bible text supports the idea that Jesus is not equal to God and he wouldn't even consider it.
How do you interpret this phrase in Phil 2:6 and 7;
1. Jesus in the "form of a servant," does it mean He is man or not?
2. Jesus in the "form of God," can you use the same logic or not? And why?
This speaks of his life on earth and also in heaven. On earth he was a perfect MAN, in the form of humans.
In heaven Jesus is SPIRIT, as God is, so he is in the form of God. (All spirit beings are not God.)
Where is Jesus when the Father said to Jesus, "therefore God"? Heaven or earth? (Heb 1:9)
Heaven
Lexicon defined "fellows" in Heb 1:9 as partner, companion, participating in.
Are those partners in Luke 5:7 are in heaven also? (Same Greek word NT:3353 metochos)

NT:3353 metochos participating in; subst.: participant; companion, fellow, partaker, partner.

Luke 5:7 And they beckoned unto their partners, which were in the other ship, that they should come and help them. And they came, and filled both the ships, so that they began to sink.
KJV

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Re: Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

Post #320

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 9:53 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 2:01 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 3:27 am
onewithhim wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:43 am
Capbook wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 4:04 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2024 2:46 pm
Capbook wrote: Sat Aug 31, 2024 4:47 am
onewithhim wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 9:37 am
Capbook wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 7:56 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:43 am

Agreed. The immediate and larger context of the bible indicates which of the two ways is best. Jesus never being identified as Almighty God indicates that the most suitable way of the two possibilities is "to grasps forcefully [that] which one does not have"
I also colored red my point above.
As you say, Phil.2:6 can be translated in two different ways. Our contention that it is to be translated as Christ did NOT have equality with God has equal validity in scholarly circles.
Scholars views are man's interpretation. Bible text supported by Bible text is what I prefer.
Phil 2:6 supported by Rev 1:8,17 and 18. Jesus the Almighty who is to come, died but made alive.
I have posted before that Philippians 2:6 does not say that Jesus considered himself to be equal with God. He was said to not want to grasp or forcefully take any condition that would put himself on God's level.

[Christ Jesus] "who, though he was in the form of God [Spirit] did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." (Phil.2:6, Revised Standard Version) To "grasp" here has the meaning of to take forcefully, something he didn't have before. So THIS Bible text supports the idea that Jesus is not equal to God and he wouldn't even consider it.
How do you interpret this phrase in Phil 2:6 and 7;
1. Jesus in the "form of a servant," does it mean He is man or not?
2. Jesus in the "form of God," can you use the same logic or not? And why?
This speaks of his life on earth and also in heaven. On earth he was a perfect MAN, in the form of humans.
In heaven Jesus is SPIRIT, as God is, so he is in the form of God. (All spirit beings are not God.)
Where is Jesus when the Father said to Jesus, "therefore God"? Heaven or earth? (Heb 1:9)
Heaven
Lexicon defined "fellows" in Heb 1:9 as partner, companion, participating in.
Are those partners in Luke 5:7 are in heaven also? (Same Greek word NT:3353 metochos)

NT:3353 metochos participating in; subst.: participant; companion, fellow, partaker, partner.

Luke 5:7 And they beckoned unto their partners, which were in the other ship, that they should come and help them. And they came, and filled both the ships, so that they began to sink.
KJV
Those "partners" are those who stayed with him on earth and did the preaching work with him. They would much later be in heaven with him.

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