Please Challenge This Hypothesis

[POI]

After years of debate, one topic seems to remain without waiver and/or adjustment. I'm placing this topic here, in the forefront/spotlight, to expose it to direct challenge. I will be more than happy than to (waiver from/augment/abort) this hypothesis, baring evidence to the contrary....

Hypothesis: The reason most/all believe in (God/gods/higher powers) is because of evolution. Meaning, 'survival of the fitter." Meaning, all humans who favored type 2 errors over type 1 errors are now mostly gone. We inherit our parent's predisposition to invoke type 1 errors, until otherwise logically necessary. Meaning, few will still BECOME atheists after "going to the well enough times" and not seeing God there.

Allow me to explain. In this context, a type 1 error would be first assuming intentional agency, and being wrong -- (good or bad). Alternatively, a type 2 error would be not to first assume intentional agency, and being wrong.

1) Walking down a dirt path, from point A to point B, and hearing a rustle in the weeds, and first assuming danger, would be a type 1 error IF incorrect. This person would still be alive if they are wrong. Maybe it was actually just the wind. Alternatively, if one was to instead first assume no danger, the wind, but there was danger, this person has first committed a type 2 error and is now likely out of the gene pool. And since this has been happening for a long time, we only have the ones who first invoke type 1 errors.

2) Getting in a car wreck with 3 friends.... Your 3 friends die, but you live. You assume you are purposefully spared. IF you are wrong, there is really no harm and no way to know. There is really also no way to confirm you were not spared. Hence, your possible type 1 error is never confirmed/corrected. Which means you can and will continue to attribute agency, where there may not really be any.

In essence, you first assume agency, until proven otherwise. For God, it is never really unproven. Humans connect the dots, accept the hits and ignore the misses, other...

For debate: Is this is viable reason why most believe in a higher power? Is this also why other arguments, against god(s), hardly change the believer's mind?

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #105]

Namaskaram 1213

https://isha.sadhguru.org/en/wisdom/art ... ar-meaning

Let us inspire our brothers and sisters Have you done your homework...
...

Thanks, I think that is interesting. However, many of those arguments could be used against Christianity also, if understood the same way. And it is difficult to prove how things actually went. That is why for me the main problem with Islam is that it is basically said that Jesus is a prophet of God, and we should believe prophets of God. And then people say, don't actually believe what Jesus says. Too big contradiction for me to take it seriously.

[TRANSPONDER]

You fail in the same way. Fore example "It doesn't say those words". But it doers say in Matthew that the women met jesus and Luke says it was Mary Magdalene and the others wj ho 'saw and heard' all these things. But did not see jesus. That's a demonstrable contradiction, even if if you try to deny it.

You err, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.
Matt. 22:29

Luke says the women told the things. He doesn't say they all saw the same things.

Now they were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James. The other women with them told these things to the apostles.
Luke 24:10

You don't even deny slavery though you try to excuse it, and it Your interpretation that the tough but fair conditions, as a lost cause apologist might put it were only for hebrew slaves and not for foreign ones, but even then it asn apologetic for God endorsing slavery which he could just have forbidden IF he had a moral sense better than ours.

Why forbid it, if people voluntarily want to be slaves?

But suppose you were right and essentially there is no doctrinal difference between Islam and Christianity just as you appear to want to argue there is no difference between Judaism and Christianity. Why aren't you a Muslim? It's the more recent update of God's revelation after all, so why do you reject it?

What is the update?

Main problem for me in Islam is that they seem to worship a stone in the desert. I think that is wrong and against the Biblical teachings. If that idea comes from Muhammad, then I think he is not a God's prophet.

Also, if Quran doesn't mean what it says, it makes the message not useful and reasonable, which is why I reject it. In this case for example, if the believe Jesus doesn't really mean that, then it is not logical book, and I have to ignore it.

They were alkl reporting back toigether, Luke says. Of course they would have seen the same things. Remember that according to John she didn't even know what had happened to Jesus. No angelic message.

To me this is slam dunk evidence of four divergent stories. mark being the Original synoptic, whiuch even John debunks, having only an empty tomb.

You are inventing stuff not in the bible (Mary Magdalene supposedly not being there when the women ran into Jesus) in order to get ob ver the plain contradiction, which may explain why a millennium of Bible experts haven't noticed this - and which is why not one of them merits being taken seriously.

Yhey are lying for Jesus, or at least clinging to a theory out of Bias, when it has been debunked on the best evidence. Just as you did with the cetan sequence validating speciation - unless youy are willing to follow the evidence on that rather than faithbased denial.
Your excuses about Islam seem pretty poor too.

Don't the Christians worship the empty tomb? Or they would if there wasn't a second one and religious Problems made the place so darn difficult to visit. Your excuses for rejecting Islam are just the ones I'd use about the message of Jesus. The morality tries to be reasonable but it is either too demanding of so flaccid to be useful. You, my dear old good bad example have to dismiss actually following the Teachings on the grounds that Jesus isn't now on earth, so you don't have to give all your money to the poor.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to 1213 in post #105]

Namaskaram 1213

https://isha.sadhguru.org/en/wisdom/art ... ar-meaning

Let us inspire our brothers and sisters Have you done your homework...
...

Thanks, I think that is interesting. However, many of those arguments could be used against Christianity also, if understood the same way. And it is difficult to prove how things actually went. That is why for me the main problem with Islam is that it is basically said that Jesus is a prophet of God, and we should believe prophets of God. And then people say, don't actually believe what Jesus says. Too big contradiction for me to take it seriously.

You almost had it there Your excuses for Christianity could be used for Islam. The Update? It is a later revelation. It looks worse that Christianity? Christianity has failed, so God knows, it's time to try coercion rather than compassion. Who are we to question God? Your excuse about Jesus doesn't work. Jesus is a prophet, and we should believe what he says, like Moses. But the NT updated that, too. There is no good reason to reject the Update of Islam other than you have not been taught and brought up to believe it.

That is the point I made here, and it is simply you looking for 'contradictions' as an excuse to reject a religion that you were not indoctrinated into.

I won't labour or even labor the point but the faithbased denialism (and more) is obvious and is the reason I rejected any and all organised religions as man made in my teens.

[1213]

...Of course they would have seen the same things. ..

You are inventing stuff not in the Bible, why? If Bible is wrong, you don't need to invent own stuff to make it look wrong.

Remember that according to John she didn't even know what had happened to Jesus....

It seems to me that you don't even read the book, or what I say, just make up stuff and hope people don't notice and check things.

12 and she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head, and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
13 They told her, "Woman, why are you weeping?" She said to them, "Because they have taken away my Lord, and I don't know where they have laid him."
14 When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, and didn't know that it was Jesus.
15 Jesus said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping? Who are you looking for?" She, supposing him to be the gardener, said to him, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away."
16 Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned and said to him, "Rhabbouni!" which is to say, "Teacher!"
17 Jesus said to her, "Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had said these things to her.
John 20:12-18

[TRANSPONDER]

...Of course they would have seen the same things. ..

You are inventing stuff not in the Bible, why? If Bible is wrong, you don't need to invent own stuff to make it look wrong.

Remember that according to John she didn't even know what had happened to Jesus....

It seems to me that you don't even read the book, or what I say, just make up stuff and hope people don't notice and check things.

12 and she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head, and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
13 They told her, "Woman, why are you weeping?" She said to them, "Because they have taken away my Lord, and I don't know where they have laid him."
14 When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, and didn't know that it was Jesus.
15 Jesus said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping? Who are you looking for?" She, supposing him to be the gardener, said to him, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away."
16 Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned and said to him, "Rhabbouni!" which is to say, "Teacher!"
17 Jesus said to her, "Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had said these things to her.
John 20:12-18

But that was after Mary had run back to the disciples. Up to then, she (and the other one the "We" she mentioned) hadn't seen Jesus nor an angel explaining everything.

What's going on here? Don't you know what your own Bible says or are you hoping I don't?

I can post the whole bit of John from empty tomb (no angel, no message) telling the disciples she has no idea where Jesus is (though Luke says the angel explained everything and Matthew contradicts Luke's account by saying the women ran into Jesus) and Then they all rush off to the tomb, the disciples check it's empty and leave and Then Jesus appears in the passage you post above,

It is absolutely Not the appearance of Jesus to the women on the way from the tomb to tell the disciples.

Don't you know what's in your own Bible, or are you hoping I don't?

What do you think apologists on both sides will think of you when you post poor apologetics like that, never mind accusing me of making stuff up. You seem a smart enough bod, don't you think your brain requires a better method?

[Waterfall]

[Replying to 1213 in post #105]

Namaskaram 1213

https://isha.sadhguru.org/en/wisdom/art ... ar-meaning

Let us inspire our brothers and sisters Have you done your homework...
...

Thanks, I think that is interesting. However, many of those arguments could be used against Christianity also, if understood the same way. And it is difficult to prove how things actually went. That is why for me the main problem with Islam is that it is basically said that Jesus is a prophet of God, and we should believe prophets of God. And then people say, don't actually believe what Jesus says. Too big contradiction for me to take it seriously.

How do you understand this...

But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."

Your friend forever

Waterfall

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to 1213 in post #105]

Namaskaram 1213

https://isha.sadhguru.org/en/wisdom/art ... ar-meaning

Let us inspire our brothers and sisters Have you done your homework...
...

Thanks, I think that is interesting. However, many of those arguments could be used against Christianity also, if understood the same way. And it is difficult to prove how things actually went. That is why for me the main problem with Islam is that it is basically said that Jesus is a prophet of God, and we should believe prophets of God. And then people say, don't actually believe what Jesus says. Too big contradiction for me to take it seriously.

How do you understand this...

But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."

Your friend forever

Waterfall

believe I already explained. It is .. well, it is doing a lot of things, some intended, others not.

It is trying to replace the Jewish (Mosaic) laws with a basic 'be nice to evyone' philosophy that God supposedlky approves of more than the Mosaic laws.

This is crafty Christian propaganda (the gospels were written by Christian propagandists, not Jewish eyewitnesses) to make Jewish law and custom obsolete. It doesn't tell the sucker about the small print. 'Give all you have to the poor'. 'Anyone who has not left father and mother is not fit to be my disciple'.

But what it does do is to make Christian laws and customs (the Jesus saids) also obsolete as the love your neighbour morals of the Universal golden rule (being a human instinct, not a god - given Law) means that secular humanism is the 'better religion' than any of the others.

Understanding ourselves, what we are and why we act as we do is a better option than drooling over gods or religions and hoping that'll make everyone do better. It never has and it never will. At worst is creates a protected elite that can help themselves to money, power and anything else and not pay any taxes either, and hide behind religious respect. This has to stop..

I don't reject the lovey -dovey stuff you propose, but we have to understand it, not just mud - wallow in it.

I won't go so far as 'your friend forever' as Friendship (indeed Respect( is earned, not handed out like advertising leaflets. It cheapens what Friendship is.

Though I appreciate the sentiment, I just say you are welcome here (for myself) and posting efforts are appreciated. And the sentiment of friendship is appreciated, even with those who are fighting me tooth and nail over morality, the gospels and evilooshun.

[Waterfall]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #117]

Namaskaram TRANSPONDER

I am here to support and help everybody Love will set us free...

















Your friend forever

Waterfall

[1213]

...
How do you understand this...

But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."

I understand it as it is written. And if one loves others as themselves, they do nothing wrong to others. And loving God means one keeps His commandments.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

[1213]

...Of course they would have seen the same things. ..

You are inventing stuff not in the Bible, why? If Bible is wrong, you don't need to invent own stuff to make it look wrong.

Remember that according to John she didn't even know what had happened to Jesus....

It seems to me that you don't even read the book, or what I say, just make up stuff and hope people don't notice and check things.

12 and she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head, and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
13 They told her, "Woman, why are you weeping?" She said to them, "Because they have taken away my Lord, and I don't know where they have laid him."
14 When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, and didn't know that it was Jesus.
15 Jesus said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping? Who are you looking for?" She, supposing him to be the gardener, said to him, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away."
16 Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned and said to him, "Rhabbouni!" which is to say, "Teacher!"
17 Jesus said to her, "Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had said these things to her.
John 20:12-18

But that was after Mary had run back to the disciples. Up to then, she (and the other one the "We" she mentioned) hadn't seen Jesus nor an angel explaining everything.

Yes, the whole story went so that when the women got to the tomb and noticed the tomb empty, Mary ran to tell it to Peter and John, while the other women stayed on the tomb. While Mary was running, the other women saw the angel and heard the message and left to tell it to the others. After they had left Mary, Peter and John arrived to the tomb, found it empty and Peter and John left, Mary stayed and then saw the angels and also Jesus. And then she told with the other women what had happened.