Daniel Vision vs Constantine the Great

[mms20102]

Across my Biblical studies in the old testament there is a chapter named Daniel and this chapter has some visions that's supposed to represent the future events to come and in most of the time those visions are represented in real Historic facts, in this post I would like to discuss the vision of Daniel 7 https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Daniel-Chapter-7/
So I will make 4 main points in this post:

1- The 4 beasts
2- The 10 horns
3- The small horn
4- The time after the small horn

First point is the 4 beasts no one will had different interpretation of the beasts other than the 4 empires, 1- Babylon 2- Persian 3- Greek 4- Roman

Second point is the 10 horns.

23-Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24-And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The Hakham Saadia Gaon said in his Book
The ten could be :
1- The greatest emperors.
2- The greatest fathers ( The earliest Emperors )
3- The greatest one of each family.
If we take any of the above conditions only 10 emperors will remain.

In my opinion they are the 10 emperors that conquered Jerusalem and killed both monotheists and Trinitarians and they are ten starting from Nero up to Diocletian 305 not just my humble opinion but also the opinion of many Christian theologians.

Now the small Horn

24 - and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The small horn here should be also an emperor from the Romans and after 10 emperors and he shall conquer three and say great things against God and will be different from those 10 and the one matching the vision is Constantine the Great.
Constantine the Great in 313 made the Edict of Milan which declared tolerance for Christianity in the Roman Empire, he began to favor Christianity beginning in 312, finally becoming a Christian and being baptised by either Eusebius of Nicomedia an Arian bishop or Pope Saint Sylvester which is maintained by the Catholic Church and the Coptic Orthodox Church. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great).
he eliminated 3 emperors

In his book History of Christian Church, Philip Schaff mentioned

With his every victory, over his pagan rivals, Galerius, Maxentius, and Licinius, his personal leaning to Christianity and his confidence in the magic power of the sign of the cross increased; yet he did not formally renounce heathenism, and did not receive baptism until, in 337, he was laid upon the bed of his death

(https://worthychristianbooks.com/histor ... an-empire/)

The very brightest period of his reign is stained with gross crimes, which even the spirit of the age and the policy of an absolute monarch cannot excuse. After having reached, upon the bloody path of war, the goal of his ambition, the sole possession of the empire, yea, in the very year in which he summoned the great council of Nicaea, he ordered the execution of his conquered rival and brother-in-law, Licinius, in breach of a solemn promise of mercy (324). Not satisfied with this, he caused soon afterwards, from political suspicion, the death of the young Licinius, his nephew, a boy of hardly eleven years. But the worst of all is the murder of his eldest son, Crispus, in 326

Also in their book (The Complete Book of When and Where) E. Michael Rusten · Sharon O. Rusten wrote

But there was a darker side to Constantine. In 326, he had his wife, the sister of Maxentius, and one son executed under suspicious circumstances. He also never relinquished his position as chief priest of the pagan state religion, and his coins proclaimed his allegiance to the sun god. He delayed Christian baptism until shortly before his death.

https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/m ... nstantine/

His conversion was not accompanied by a sharp break with his former paganism. Rather, a transition is discernible from the worship of the divine Sun to the service of the one true Christian God. When, in 321, he made the first day of the week a holiday, he described it as the day of the sun (but so do Christians today!).

https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/m ... rly-church

What Constantine did about Christmas further suggests he had Christianity in mind. Early Christians, of course, had no information that would help the, calculate the date of Christ's birth. The earliest evidence for the observance of December 25 as the birthday of Christ appears in the Philocalian Calendar, composed at Rome in 336. For many years this date was observed only in the west ; the eastern churchs observed Jan 6, Epiphany. Curiously, pagan holidays lay behind both of these dates. December 25 was the Natalis Soli Invicti, the birthday of the Unconquered Sun. Jan 6 was the feast of Dionysus.

so regarding the quotations above we can say for sure the small horn is Constantine the Great

Now before going to 4th point we need to highlight some points
1- His converting to Christianity was political issue
2- He eliminated monotheists and declared trinitarians
3- He was never baptized until his death
4- He killed many of his family members
5- He mixed Christianity and paganism
6- He killed anyone owned Arian books


Now we move to point 4, the point that Christians ,Muslims and other theologians have interpreted differently

He will speak words against the Most High [God] and wear down the saints of the Most High, and he will intend to change the times and the law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, [two] times, and half a time [three and one-half years].

https://biblehub.com/daniel/7-25.htm

we need to ask first who ended the Ruling of Constantine and his followers, and the answer is clear, Muslims ended the ruling of Constantine and his followers over Jerusalem ( Kingdom of God). Constantine and his followers reigned over Jerusalem from 305 up 636 means 331 years which is by lunar years 640 and which is almost 3.5 portions of time ( 1 portion = 100 years )

This post was nothing but a personal view to the vision.

Edit Important note: -
Main researcher ( Ahmed Spea )
The post is a modified English version of the main research.

[JehovahsWitness]

... the "scarlet beast" (Rev 17:3) with seven heads and ten horns .... The 8th head represented one of the 7 heads...

Huh? How can the beast have an 8th head if it only had 7 heads?

[2ndpillar2]

... the "scarlet beast" (Rev 17:3) with seven heads and ten horns .... The 8th head represented one of the 7 heads...

Huh? How can the beast have an 8th head if it only had 7 heads?

The eighth head of the beast is one that was and is not, and according to Revelation 16:13, will come via the demon spirit of the beast. The 10 horns are 10 kings who will reign for a short period (one hour) during the reign of the 8th head of the beast.

Revelation 17:…10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast that was, and now is not, is an eighth king, who belongs to the other seven and is going into destruction. 12The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive one hour of authority as kings, along with the beast.

[2ndpillar2]

Replying to mms20102 in post #1we need to ask first who ended the Ruling of Constantine and his followers, and the answer is clear, Muslims ended the ruling of Constantine and his followers over Jerusalem ( Kingdom of God). Constantine and his followers reigned over Jerusalem from 305 up 636 means 331 years which is by lunar years 640 and which is almost 3.5 portions of time ( 1 portion = 100 years )

The Roman Emperor Constantine, as Pontifex Maximus, established the dogma of his Roman church from his summer palace at Nicaea. The present-day Pontifex Maximus, who inherited that position via Constantine, who inherited that position from Julius Caesar, rules Constantine's Trinity church from Rome, and has his own army, and a large set of clerks, who apparently spent a lot of time laundering Mob money and chasing young boys. The Pope now claims the title of Pontifex Maximus, and the holder of the key of David. According to Isaiah 22:25, the holder of the key of David, by way of Peter, will "in that day", "fall", and all hanging onto him will be "cut off". (Isaiah 22:15-25). The pope still claims jurisdiction over a part of Jerusalem. That will not last much longer. Constantine's church empire will last time, times, and half a time (Daniel 7:25), and then the sovereignty of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be turned over to the "holy ones" (Daniel 7:27). That has not happened as of this date.

[GoldenCup]

The Roman Emperor Constantine, as Pontifex Maximus, established the dogma of his Roman church from his summer palace at Nicaea. The present-day Pontifex Maximus, who inherited that position via Constantine, who inherited that position from Julius Caesar, rules Constantine's Trinity church from Rome, and has his own army, and a large set of clerks, who apparently spent a lot of time laundering Mob money and chasing young boys. The Pope now claims the title of Pontifex Maximus, and the holder of the key of David. According to Isaiah 22:25, the holder of the key of David, by way of Peter, will "in that day", "fall", and all hanging onto him will be "cut off". (Isaiah 22:15-25). The pope still claims jurisdiction over a part of Jerusalem. That will not last much longer. Constantine's church empire will last time, times, and half a time (Daniel 7:25), and then the sovereignty of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be turned over to the "holy ones" (Daniel 7:27). That has not happened as of this date.

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #53]

Thank you sir for sharing this new & interesting perspective that I've never heard before. Who are the Holy Ones in your opinion? The Ashkenazi Jews?
Is the 8th head also one and the same as the 2nd beast which comes up out of the Earth?

[TRANSPONDER]

I don't buy any of this. Constantine was an Emperor who defeated his rivals and took over the whole empire, then moved his capital to Byzantium, sowing the seeds of the split into east and western roman empire.

As to Christianity, it was very popular and sooner or later would have to be accepted as a recognised religion. Not the state religion, but one of the accepted ones. But there was an impetus for Constantine to do this because his mother was a Christian, and so it would not do to have Christianity illegal or at least not recognised.

There was no change in Constantine's beliefs; his cult was the worship of the emperor as sun - god, as had been the state cult for a long time. He made political decisions about Christianity but was not one himself. The story about some kind of miracle sign before the Milvian bride is just Christian propaganda. On his triumphal arch. there is not a single Christian sign, not one. And we can take the claim of a deathbed conversion with a large handful of salt.

The bishop of Rome (or pope) whatever lineage he claimed from the OT, was just another Bishop but after Cconstantne, he got more and more influence over the Emperor and got a free hand to suppress all other rival religions, and in the end abrogated the position of the Emperor. The pope became the de - facto ruler of the Roman empire. The rest is unedifying history.

[GoldenCup]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #55]

The bishop of Rome (or pope) whatever lineage he claimed from the OT, was just another Bishop but after Cconstantne, he got more and more influence over the Emperor and got a free hand to suppress all other rival religions, and in the end abrogated the position of the Emperor. The pope became the de - facto ruler of the Roman empire. The rest is unedifying history.

It seems by your understanding that the bishop of Rome would be the little horn that became great? Didn't the Papacy adopt the title of pontifex maximus from the old pagan roman religion, thereby solidifying the connection between the Dragon giving his seat, power, and authority to the sea beast?

In other Words, the Emperor worshipping cult with their Pontifex Maximus at Pergamos; was absorbed by Constantine's NOVA ROMA when it absorbed pergamos, and made Pagan Christianity (Roman Catholicism) the new religion. Jesus told the Church in Pergamos that Satan's THRONE was located there, and later in Revelation we read that the Dragon (Satan) gave the Sea beast his power, THRONE, and great authority.

The connection seems to be clear and the Papacy still uses the title of Pont Max from the old pagan roman religion.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #55]

The bishop of Rome (or pope) whatever lineage he claimed from the OT, was just another Bishop but after Cconstantne, he got more and more influence over the Emperor and got a free hand to suppress all other rival religions, and in the end abrogated the position of the Emperor. The pope became the de - facto ruler of the Roman empire. The rest is unedifying history.

It seems by your understanding that the bishop of Rome would be the little horn that became great? Didn't the Papacy adopt the title of pontifex maximus from the old pagan roman religion, thereby solidifying the connection between the Dragon giving his seat, power, and authority to the sea beast?

In other Words, the Emperor worshipping cult with their Pontifex Maximus at Pergamos; was absorbed by Constantine's NOVA ROMA when it absorbed pergamos, and made Pagan Christianity (Roman Catholicism) the new religion. Jesus told the Church in Pergamos that Satan's THRONE was located there, and later in Revelation we read that the Dragon (Satan) gave the Sea beast his power, THRONE, and great authority.

The connection seems to be clear and the Papacy still uses the title of Pont Max from the old pagan roman religion.

Indeed. As I recall it was the principal priesthood of the state cult which was filled by the Emperor. After the end of Imperial authority in Western Rome, it was the pope (Bishop of Rome) who took over that authority

Unfair enough. But where it goes wrong is in seeing Daniel as some prophecy of it. I recall it was shown to be nothing more than retrospective history just before the maccabean war and ends before the time of Jesus, never mind the Roman empire.

[JehovahsWitness]

Thank you sir for sharing this new & interesting perspective that I've never heard before.

You've probably never heard about it before because its wrong. The prophecy itself identifies who it concerns, namely Shebna and Eliakim, chief administrators under King Hezekiah in the 7th Century BCE.

[JehovahsWitness]

... Who are the Holy Ones in your opinion? The Ashkenazi Jews?

There is no holiness without Christ, and as a nation the natural Jews have not accepted him, so no, the Ashkenazi Jews are not the biblical "Holy Ones" of end time prophecy. The holy ones today are born again Christians "spiritual" Israel.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE MODERN DAY POLITICAL STATE OF ISRAEL - 1948 , THE 144, 000 and .... SPIRITUAL ISRAEL

[JehovahsWitness]

Is the 8th head also one and the same as the 2nd beast which comes up out of the Earth?

There is no "eighth head" mentioned in the bible... there's an eighth KING , but no eighth head!

The eighth KING does not correspond to the earth beast, but rather to the "scarlet beast" namely The United Nations.

FURTHER READING What Is the Scarlet-Colored Beast of Revelation Chapter 17?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... lation-17/


How are the books of Danniel and Revelation connected?
viewtopic.php?p=1151602#p1151602

To learn more please go to other posts related to

DANIEL'S PROPHECIES , .THE SECOND COMING * and ... THE BOOK OF REVELATION

*The Return of Christ