Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

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Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #1

Post by POI »

Seems there exists an unresolved topic amongst Christians... Seems as though the way to salvation is not unified among the many in which I engage. I'd wager they all have a case to support their position(s).?.?

For debate: How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process? Is it by grace alone, belief/faith alone, works alone; or it is a combination of the three? Or is it maybe other? Please, not only present your case, but please also explain why the other asserted methods are incorrect.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #911

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 5:16 am ...And all of you have read your Bibles. This tells me the message is NOT clear.
If you think Bible message is not clear, please give one example of it that is unclear to you.
POI wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 5:16 am
1213 wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 3:23 am I don't think you have understood my answer correctly. I don't say "Jesus already did all the dirty work, everyone goes now since he had to die for all, as all fall short".
You told me your answer was A). Would you like to change it now?
My answer is just Unconditional grace, without your additions.
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #912

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 3:54 am
POI wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 5:16 am ...And all of you have read your Bibles. This tells me the message is NOT clear.
If you think Bible message is not clear, please give one example of it that is unclear to you.
I've already repeatedly done that with you directly.
1213 wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 3:54 am My answer is just Unconditional grace, without your additions.
Unconditional grace includes absolutely everyone. Conditional grace would not include absolutely everyone. Are you sure you wish to choose unconditional?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #913

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 10:06 am
1213 wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 3:54 am
POI wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 5:16 am ...And all of you have read your Bibles. This tells me the message is NOT clear.
If you think Bible message is not clear, please give one example of it that is unclear to you.
I've already repeatedly done that with you directly.
Hmmm... sorry, I have not noticed you offering any scripture that is not clear.
POI wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 10:06 amUnconditional grace includes absolutely everyone. Conditional grace would not include absolutely everyone. Are you sure you wish to choose unconditional?
Yes, unconditional grace is offered for everyone, but it does not mean "everyone goes now".
My new book can be read freely from here:
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Old version can be read from here:
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #914

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 4:03 am
POI wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 10:06 am
1213 wrote: Fri Jun 07, 2024 3:54 am
POI wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2024 5:16 am ...And all of you have read your Bibles. This tells me the message is NOT clear.
If you think Bible message is not clear, please give one example of it that is unclear to you.
I've already repeatedly done that with you directly.
Hmmm... sorry, I have not noticed you offering any scripture that is not clear.
You either have a foggy memory, or, are pretending. Either way, I'll just pass.
1213 wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 4:03 am Yes, unconditional grace is offered for everyone, but it does not mean "everyone goes now".
When you say salvation is unconditionally "offered", but not everyone goes, then on what condition(s) prohibits some from going?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #915

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 11:13 am ...
When you say salvation is unconditionally "offered", but not everyone goes, then on what condition(s) prohibits some from going?
Eternal life is promised only for righteous. So, if you meant everyone goes to eternal life, it is not so.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
My new book can be read freely from here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view

Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #916

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:11 am
POI wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 11:13 am ...
When you say salvation is unconditionally "offered", but not everyone goes, then on what condition(s) prohibits some from going?
Eternal life is promised only for righteous. So, if you meant everyone goes to eternal life, it is not so.
Then it's not unconditional. Alternatively, it's very conditional.
1213 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:11 am These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
I'll remove you from option A) and replace with option B):

"God’s Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a [h]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
Last edited by POI on Mon Jun 10, 2024 2:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #917

Post by POI »

List of options:

A) Unconditional grace - (Jesus already did all the dirty work, everyone goes now since he had to die for all, as all fall short)
B) Faith/belief - (accept him as your savior, ask him for guidance, apply trust in him)
C) Works - (necessary additional acts or tasks in which Jesus also deems 'good')
D) Both B) and C)
E) No one goes, no one is worthy
F) Other, which does not already include the topics of B) and/or C)

********************

Provided Christian answers, thus far:

Post 11: JW No answer
Post 27: Eloi No answer
Post 49: Bjs1 answer B)
Post 76: Tam answer D)
Post 236: kjw47 answer D)
Post 239: DJT_47 answer D)
Post 321: AFG answer D)
Post 758: Mea Von H answer A) or E)?
Post 904: Capbook answer A), B), C) or E)?
Post 916: 1213 answer B)
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #918

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 2:13 pm
1213 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:11 am
POI wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 11:13 am ...
When you say salvation is unconditionally "offered", but not everyone goes, then on what condition(s) prohibits some from going?
Eternal life is promised only for righteous. So, if you meant everyone goes to eternal life, it is not so.
Then it's not unconditional. Alternatively, it's very conditional.
Yes, but it is not the same as grace, which is unconditional.
POI wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 2:13 pm
1213 wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:11 am These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
I'll remove you from option A) and replace with option B):

"God’s Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified [g]freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a [h]propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
It is amazing how difficult it can be to accept my own answer.
My new book can be read freely from here:
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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #919

Post by POI »

[Replying to 1213 in post #918]

So, you are good with answer B)?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

Post #920

Post by Capbook »

POI wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2024 2:14 pm List of options:

A) Unconditional grace - (Jesus already did all the dirty work, everyone goes now since he had to die for all, as all fall short)
B) Faith/belief - (accept him as your savior, ask him for guidance, apply trust in him)
C) Works - (necessary additional acts or tasks in which Jesus also deems 'good')
D) Both B) and C)
E) No one goes, no one is worthy
F) Other, which does not already include the topics of B) and/or C)

********************

Provided Christian answers, thus far:

Post 11: JW No answer
Post 27: Eloi No answer
Post 49: Bjs1 answer B)
Post 76: Tam answer D)
Post 236: kjw47 answer D)
Post 239: DJT_47 answer D)
Post 321: AFG answer D)
Post 758: Mea Von H answer A) or E)?
Post 904: Capbook answer A), B), C) or E)?
Post 916: 1213 answer B)
My answer is D.
B for believers.
C for those who died not hearing the good news.
Last edited by Capbook on Sat Sep 21, 2024 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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