"Slavery" in the Bible

[POI]

Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7.

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

************************

Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'

[POI]

Any other Christians want to have a go at this topic? So far, the Bible can be used to justify both a) chattel slavery, as well as b) the breeding of new chattel slaves.

[TRANSPONDER]

I suspect all has been said. The excuses and evasions were pretty much allc overed (and excellently set out in the vid 'Totally different' which I'll post because it makes (and proves) the point perfectly. The excuses and evasions (which is all Bible apologetics ever amount to - and that is better than lies and denial) are shewn up and trod down and they have nowhere to go but the land of *crickets* Like the Janacek sinfonietta, it can never be plugged too often.



Even the excellent Darkmatter 2525 takes the knee before nonStamp collector.

He explains it so clearly - it's a matter of Interpretation. Which as any True Believer knows, is knowing through a faithbased hotline to the god that speaks in the head, what the Bible Means, never mind what it appears to say.

NonstampCollector shows beautifully how Interpretation works.Listen and learn.

[POI]

Reference, post 3830 (http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... start=3820)

Conclusion:

Abusive chattel slavery = killing them or knocking out their eye's/teeth.

Non-abuse chattel slavery = Anything else. But since the slave is their labor, they likely just stuck to what works, which is lashes to the backside. This way, they could still work the fields.

Why? The chattel slave is their property. You can also breed them and keep their offspring as well. Freebie new chattel slaves. Not much different than raising livestock for new free cattle.

Chattel slaves are not to the same level of property as a spoon or a chair though.... They are instead deemed somewhere in between livestock and kept women. This is why killing them may still merit capital punishment.

[The Nice Centurion]

On May 13th 1888, Brazil became the last nation in the Western Hemisphere to formally abolish slavery. One-hundred and twenty years later, it is estimated that 25,000 to 40,000 workers are still victims of conditions analogous to slavery in this South American country. The problem is particularly serious in the northern agricultural states, where widespread poverty and the vast distances make it very difficult to detect violations. However, with the guidance of the ILO and the help of employers, the Brazilian government is gradually turning the situation around. ILO Online reports from Brazil.
https://www.ilo.org/resource/article/fo ... fight-goes

Brazil was the last western country to officially abolish slavery (and still today holds up to 40000 people in conditions comparable to slavery) and is still the country with absolutely supremity of christianity.
(Not as supreme as until 1891 when christianity was enforced state religion)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Brazil

I see a pattern.

Slavery is really a christian thingie.

[1213]

...
Slavery is really a christian thingie.

Everyone who must pay taxes is a slave. It seems to be very common thingie also for others than Christians.

[TRANSPONDER]

...
Slavery is really a christian thingie.

Everyone who must pay taxes is a slave. It seems to be very common thingie also for others than Christians.

I was toying with the ideas of saying this on my previous post but I'll say it now. I try to n be polite (while saying exactly where the argument is wrong though Some like to treat i that as a personal insult deserving banning) but miserable excuses like that leaves a bad taste in my mouth, just like I'm about to be ill.

'The Bible doesn't say that'. I don't know where paying taxes makes anyone a slave. In any society, Christian or otherwise, where has taxes not been a thing, even if they got rid of slavery? And even if one could equate paying for services with chattel slavery (1) that doesn't make slavery right, just makes paying taxes wrong. It doesn't solve your problem. It only means that a supposedly good God not only did not command that one should not own people as property but one should nether levy nor pay taxes. So it's Two wrong things God did by omission. Unless of course you think that paying taxes and owning slaves lifetime is perfectly ok. You wouldn't be the first Christian apologist to be forced into defending slavery and leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth.

(1) Though I recall some stupid MAGA creature tried to argue that slavery was ok because her ma and paw had to work hard for a living.

[POI]

...
Slavery is really a christian thingie.

Everyone who must pay taxes is a slave. It seems to be very common thingie also for others than Christians.

You can water down the term any way you wish. This created topic is to illustrate that the Bible is a-okay with two specifics:

1) Lifetime chattel slavery is fine.
2) The breeding of new lifetime chattel slaves is fine.

Post 233 explains.

[1213]

...This created topic is to illustrate that the Bible is a-okay with two specifics:

1) Lifetime chattel slavery is fine.
2) The breeding of new lifetime chattel slaves is fine.

Because of these scriptures, I think it would be possible only if person agrees with it, not against the will of the person.

Anyone who kidnaps someone and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
Exod. 21:16
"You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Lev. 19:18, Matt. 22:37-40

[1213]

...I don't know where paying taxes makes anyone a slave. In any society, Christian or otherwise, where has taxes not been a thing, even if they got rid of slavery? And even if one could equate paying for services with chattel slavery (1) that doesn't make slavery right, just makes paying taxes wrong. ...

Slavery essentially means that person must work for someone else. A person who must pay taxes works for someone else, similarly as a slave.

The second main difference is, in ancient era the owner provided place to live and food. In modern era slave can have part of his wage for food and place to live. So, the owners have outsourced the living, that is the only meaningful difference.

The first and main difference is, if person would obey all the rules in the Bible, he could not force anyone to be a slave. For example because these:

Anyone who kidnaps someone and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
Exod. 21:16
"You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Lev. 19:18, Matt. 22:37-40

If person pays taxes voluntarily, it is not a bad thing, if person is forced to pay, that is wrong.

[TRANSPONDER]

...I don't know where paying taxes makes anyone a slave. In any society, Christian or otherwise, where has taxes not been a thing, even if they got rid of slavery? And even if one could equate paying for services with chattel slavery (1) that doesn't make slavery right, just makes paying taxes wrong. ...

Slavery essentially means that person must work for someone else. A person who must pay taxes works for someone else, similarly as a slave.

The second main difference is, in ancient era the owner provided place to live and food. In modern era slave can have part of his wage for food and place to live. So, the owners have outsourced the living, that is the only meaningful difference.

The first and main difference is, if person would obey all the rules in the Bible, he could not force anyone to be a slave. For example because these:

Anyone who kidnaps someone and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
Exod. 21:16
"You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Lev. 19:18, Matt. 22:37-40

If person pays taxes voluntarily, it is not a bad thing, if person is forced to pay, that is wrong.

More evasion. The video 'Totally different' refutes your points or excuses, rather. That evasiveness is plain when you say the essence of slavery is that one must work for someone else. Dude you just made your apologetic a laughing stock. Any child knows that working for someone else is work; slavery is being owned - not hired - by someone else.

Your neighbour (unless of course it is an enemy to be defeated, killed and the women taken if they are still virgins, or someone who with whom you disagree with on some religious thing in which case you accept an invitation to dinner and then roundly denounce him to his face...that's what Jesus does) is not your wholly owned bought, sold, paid for and insured Chattel slave.

The excuse about kidnapping someone and selling them is absolutely nothing whatever to do with buying and selling people in the market place like any other transaction, which is what slavery is, and stealing property and selling it is a crime, even if we don't impose the death penalty.

Your attempts at evasion are not only putrid, they are insulting if you thought we were so stupid as to be fooled by this.

I may have overdone it but here is the vid again, which debunked the idea that Biblical slavery and lifetime chattel slavery are Totally Different. Jizzuz...I can no longer copy and paste addresses...Googlepox, what new devilry is this?



Slavery in the Bible is buying and owning for life foreign slaves, and it is not like Hebrews who have to be let go after 7 years (unless you can trick them into lifetime slavery), it not like stolen property, slave, wife, or ass, and it is absolutely not like paying for work or paying your taxes. That is being a part of society, which no doubt the Bible believers think they are exempt from, like the Churches, evangelical ministries and Creationist businesses are exempt from paying taxes.

That's one even he didn't think of "If you donate to my legal fees fund, I promise, if elected, I will let you declare your oil and coal industries Ministries and be exempt all taxes". He can have that one for free.