Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

[POI]

Seems there exists an unresolved topic amongst Christians... Seems as though the way to salvation is not unified among the many in which I engage. I'd wager they all have a case to support their position(s).?.?

For debate: How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process? Is it by grace alone, belief/faith alone, works alone; or it is a combination of the three? Or is it maybe other? Please, not only present your case, but please also explain why the other asserted methods are incorrect.

[Mae von H]

I'm also not saying all the ones provided are or are not "valid". I'm asking Christians what IS the criteria. And virtually every Christian I ask, who also claims to know, gives me a differing answer. I then blame the Bible writers, not you.

It gets a lot worse than you are describing. Jesus, Himself, gave DIFFERENT answers to different people. To exactly ONE He said, "you must be born again." To one He says he needed to sell everything he had. To some He said "follow me." One who wanted to follow he told to go back home and preach. You want one formula for guaranteeing Heaven and even Jesus didn't give the same answer!!! Must mean there is no Heaven, right? I mean if many witnesses don't give the exact same answer, then the subject matter doesn't exist, right? If even Jesus didn't tell everyone the same thing, He wasn't telling the truth, right?

[1213]

Haven't we done this many times?

No.

Didn't we already do Paul' indication that it was Jesus' blood - sacrifice that saved, not doing this or that good works.

By what is said in the Bible, if you want a short answer, it is God who saves, by his mercy. People can do nothing to save themselves from the judgment that would come because of their sin.

[1213]

Hmm, looks like you have now abandoned your prior response(s) about being 'righteous'?

Not really, because if one is a child of God, he is also righteous.

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed: that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him, and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

I'm also not saying all the ones provided are or are not "valid". I'm asking Christians what IS the criteria. And virtually every Christian I ask, who also claims to know, gives me a differing answer. I then blame the Bible writers, not you.

If people don't accept that is said in the Bible, it is their problem, not the fault of the Bible.

Further, if you MUST be born 'anew', then infants, toddlers, little children, and the ones who will never hear of him, who then die in that state, stand no chance.

I believe everyone has a chance to be righteous, a child of God.

[POI]

Mae Your answers as to why students might not pass did not include simply forgetting material.

POI Yes it does. Getting the answer wrong, for whatever reason(s), includes forgetting, being mistaken, never studying, being too dumb, etc...

Mae Chaff! You divert the discussion here when it's clear you are mistaken. And I told you an answer. Keep the moral law every day, which I can tell you, you don't.

POI According to you, no one does. You too admit no one can achieve it, only Jesus. Hence, does Jesus offer A) (un)conditional grace, or E) no one goes?

Mae We never discussed hell. Don't change my words please.

POI I asked if there is a large divide between hell believers, verses not. The Bible also states the ones not chosen will be eternally condemned. Which means God/Jesus is doing the condemning. Does this given condemnation reside in hell, or not?

Mae If you can keep the moral law of God perfectly, then no. But anyone who can do this would deeply love Christ.

POI You and I already agree no one can keep God's law perfectly. Only Jesus can. I guess this means B) IS a requirement for ALL?

Mae You do like to control what others say to you, don't you? You want answers but only your a) b) c) or d) are allowed. That you might not understand a matter doesn't occur to you. That someone else's thought don't fit into the box you insist they use doesn't occur to you.

You don't want explanations so you call it "preaching" so as to prevent you from learning.

POI You are misunderstanding me. The options offered in A) thru F) encompass all possibilities. I already explained why. (i.e.) You could give me a one-hour story about how your friend hurt you. But, all-and-all, the said story can be summed up in one word, "jealousy".

Further, yes, you do preach quite a bit, and is frowned upon, when observing the rules of this forum.

[POI]

Not really, because if one is a child of God, he is also righteous.

But you already stated the answer is not B), and yet, righteousness is synonymous with faith. Does this mean the answer is D)? Before, you stated it was F)? How could it be F), if B) and C) encompass everything else you provided/explain? It should be D), at most.

If people don't accept that is said in the Bible, it is their problem, not the fault of the Bible.

You are not addressing what I am repeatedly saying. I stated all earnest followers. Not instead the ones who actively choose to rebel. Many well-meaning Christians honestly got the doctrine wrong. Being that the stakes are so high, seems God would have done a better job in assuring all of his well-meaning flock to know the path clearly. But they don't. Does God offer option A) for these folks, since they missed the message in earnest? Which then means the other options are NOT actually a criterion? Or does he eternally condemn them anyways, even though they tried their hardest and failed?

I believe everyone has a chance to be righteous, a child of God.

How so? This does not appear to be possible logically.

[POI]

I'm also not saying all the ones provided are or are not "valid". I'm asking Christians what IS the criteria. And virtually every Christian I ask, who also claims to know, gives me a differing answer. I then blame the Bible writers, not you.

It gets a lot worse than you are describing. Jesus, Himself, gave DIFFERENT answers to different people. To exactly ONE He said, "you must be born again." To one He says he needed to sell everything he had. To some He said "follow me." One who wanted to follow he told to go back home and preach. You want one formula for guaranteeing Heaven and even Jesus didn't give the same answer!!! Must mean there is no Heaven, right? I mean if many witnesses don't give the exact same answer, then the subject matter doesn't exist, right? If even Jesus didn't tell everyone the same thing, He wasn't telling the truth, right?

It's not about him not telling "truth". It's about knowing what IS the criteria for reaching Heaven? When speaking to all you fine folks, I suggest you first come to a universal answer about how one achieves it, and then respond here

[Mae von H]

I'm also not saying all the ones provided are or are not "valid". I'm asking Christians what IS the criteria. And virtually every Christian I ask, who also claims to know, gives me a differing answer. I then blame the Bible writers, not you.

It gets a lot worse than you are describing. Jesus, Himself, gave DIFFERENT answers to different people. To exactly ONE He said, "you must be born again." To one He says he needed to sell everything he had. To some He said "follow me." One who wanted to follow he told to go back home and preach. You want one formula for guaranteeing Heaven and even Jesus didn't give the same answer!!! Must mean there is no Heaven, right? I mean if many witnesses don't give the exact same answer, then the subject matter doesn't exist, right? If even Jesus didn't tell everyone the same thing, He wasn't telling the truth, right?

It's not about him not telling "truth". It's about knowing what IS the criteria for reaching Heaven? When speaking to all you fine folks, I suggest you first come to a universal answer about how one achieves it, and then respond here

Since the whole purpose the New Testament was written at all was so we would understand and believe Jesus' claims, what He says is of Primary Importance. In fact He is thee expert on answering your question.

Jesus DID NOT give one always repeated answer to your question which men asked him. What must I do to inherit eternal life / be saved was the same exact question asked of Him and He answered very differently depending upon who asked. I know you don't like this but prefer "christians answering differently so it must be all bunk" but the fact is we christians cannot answer better than Jesus. Doesn't mean there is no way or no Heaven.

[1213]

... righteousness is synonymous with faith...

By your doctrine, not by the Bible.

You are not addressing what I am repeatedly saying. I stated all earnest followers. Not instead the ones who actively choose to rebel. Many well-meaning Christians honestly got the doctrine wrong. Being that the stakes are so high, seems God would have done a better job in assuring all of his well-meaning flock to know the path clearly. But they don't. Does God offer option A) for these folks, since they missed the message in earnest? Which then means the other options are NOT actually a criterion? Or does he eternally condemn them anyways, even though they tried their hardest and failed?

For example the scriptures I gave are very clear. Why would a well meaning Christian not accept the scriptures? I don't think there is any god reason fro to reject them, if one is a Christian.

If person thinks this is about trying hard, he probably don't know what is said in the Bible.

I believe everyone has a chance to be righteous, a child of God.

How so?

Unfortunately I don't know all, that is why I can't tell how exactly.

[Mae von H]

Mae Your answers as to why students might not pass did not include simply forgetting material.

POI Yes it does. Getting the answer wrong, for whatever reason(s), includes forgetting, being mistaken, never studying, being too dumb, etc...

You didn't include those possibilities.

Mae Chaff! You divert the discussion here when it's clear you are mistaken. And I told you an answer. Keep the moral law every day, which I can tell you, you don't.

POI According to you, no one does. You too admit no one can achieve it, only Jesus. Hence, does Jesus offer A) (un)conditional grace, or E) no one goes?

Truthfully, I have no idea if anyone lived their lives according to Gods law in all of human history. How does anyone know this? Move on.

Mae We never discussed hell. Don't change my words please.

POI I asked if there is a large divide between hell believers, verses not. The Bible also states the ones not chosen will be eternally condemned. Which means God/Jesus is doing the condemning. Does this given condemnation reside in hell, or not?

This is a different subject.

Mae If you can keep the moral law of God perfectly, then no. But anyone who can do this would deeply love Christ.

POI You and I already agree no one can keep God's law perfectly. Only Jesus can. I guess this means B) IS a requirement for ALL?

We have no way of knowing the moral behavior of everyone. Move on.

Mae You do like to control what others say to you, don't you? You want answers but only your a) b) c) or d) are allowed. That you might not understand a matter doesn't occur to you. That someone else's thought don't fit into the box you insist they use doesn't occur to you.

You don't want explanations so you call it "preaching" so as to prevent you from learning.

Chaff. You control the possibilities answers. Makes it difficult to learn the truth from God or man. The truth might not be one of the options you give.

POI You are misunderstanding me. The options offered in A) thru F) encompass all possibilities. I already explained why. (i.e.) You could give me a one-hour story about how your friend hurt you. But, all-and-all, the said story can be summed up in one word, "jealousy".

As one who tried to answer, what I want to answer wasn't an option. You think too highly of the options you offer. This is a problem. You control what you'll willing to hear.

Further, yes, you do preach quite a bit, and is frowned upon, when observing the rules of this forum.

Then you will never get answers from God. If you think I preach, you ought to read the answers Jesus gave to your question. All of his answers you'd call "preaching." So of course He is silent towards you. You're in control of what He is allowed to say.

We've probably reached the end of this exchange. I've given you what needs to be done and you given me limited options in responding and keep limiting them.

I wish you success and all the best. Maybe other discussions will ensure.

[POI]

Jesus DID NOT give one always repeated answer to your question which men asked him. What must I do to inherit eternal life / be saved was the same exact question asked of Him and He answered very differently depending upon who asked. I know you don't like this but prefer "christians answering differently so it must be all bunk" but the fact is we christians cannot answer better than Jesus. Doesn't mean there is no way or no Heaven.

My point is to demonstrate that even the most earnest of believers/followers do not agree. I am not asking what Jesus's favorite color is. As you too admit, the Bible gives conflicting answers. Enough so for all you earnest folks to answer this thread differently. I do not blame you; I blame the Bible writer(s).