Comments on the Zzyzx / Easyrider debate

[Zzyzx]

I open this thread to encourage people to express their ideas on the topics being discussed in the ZZ vs. ER debate thread.

Of course anyone can post in the original thread because one of us declined opening it in Head to Head (that would have been a controlled one-on-one debate. However, it might be more appropriate to post comments in this thread.

The "questions for debate" are:

1. Does the debate make any sense or is it a waste of time and energy?

2. Would you like to see more one-on-one debates?

3. Is the idea of a “comments on the debate thread” appealing to you?

[Biker]

The historical document is out there, has been for 2,000 years nobody has proven wrong! Feel lucky big boy? Give it a shot.

How about one that was known to have been composed more than 2700 years ago which has been written about and commented on by others since the 6th century BCE. The Mahabharata., of which the Bhagavad Gita is a part, is ostensibly an historical account of a battle betwee Arjuna and his relatives. He was having a few 'difficulties' and Krishna (funny how this ancient name for a god sounds so familiar) came to advise him. It purports to be an account of a war that happened a millennia or more before the Jesus myth was concocted.

Prove it didn't happen?

Lets take a little look at the Mahabharata.
Mahabharata, Date Written ?, Earliest Copy ?, Number of Copies ?, Accuracy of Copy 90%
New Testament, Date Written 1st Century A.D. (50-100 A.D.), Earliest Copy 2nd Century A.D. (c. 130 A.D.f.), Number of Copies 5,700, Accuracy of Copy 99.5%
The national epic of India has suffered even more textual corruption than the Iliad. The Mahabharata is some eight times the size of the Iliad, of which some 26,000 lines are in doubt. This would be roughly 10% textual corruption or a 90% accuracy copy of the original.
Compared to a 99.5% accuracy for the NT.
The great story (Mahabharata), I cannot accurately comment on because it has suffered so much textual corruption that the writing cannot be trusted for its content. The extant copies are so few that an accurate copy cannot be drawn together. My understanding is it is just a story anyway.
It is not in the same class as the New Testament because Jesus was God manifest in the flesh, and the historical record is in tact, and the NT clearly lays out Gods plan of salvation and how Jesus Christ accomplished it with details on the future culmination of all things here on earth, by Jesus.
So the two cannot be compared similar to the NT and the Iliad poem.
See my earlier post on the Iliad for more details on the supernatural accuracy of the New Testament manuscript. It is uncanny to say the least.

Biker

I'm not looking for a literary analysis.

Prove to me that the stories in the Mahbharata did not happen.

What's that? You can't'? Well blow me down.

Its not "literary analysis", its textual criticism, and the text you refer to the(Mahabharata) is so unreliable, incomplete, and compromised that one cannot with any degree of certainty trust what it says. I don't think anyone with any degree of certainty could prove that "the stories" did happen or are true? So since you brought the subject up, the burden of proof is on you. And since you constantly parrot that the New Testament is

myth

The burden of proof is also on you to back up your nonsense claim. Your teapot story is nonsense and quit reading Bertrand Russell its nonsense.
You really should start reading the Bible Bernee 51 and repent and accept the Lord Jesus Christ and stop all of that nonsense you talk about all the time.

Biker

[bernee51]

[ And since you constantly parrot that the New Testament is

myth

The burden of proof is also on you to back up your nonsense claim. Your teapot story is nonsense and quit reading Bertrand Russell its nonsense.

It is myth because it is base on a flawed premise, that god exists. It is myth because it is obviously borrowing from prior myths. It is myth because the supernatural occurences purported to have happened did not. Why? Because they could not. Because virgins don't get pregnant. Dead men do not resurrect. The dead do not come out of their grave? Et al.

You really should start reading the Bible

And you should start reading something else other than the bible (anything else would be a good start).

However, I suggest a history describing the evolution of religion and the god concept.

repent and accept the Lord Jesus Christ and stop all of that nonsense you talk about all the time.

I have nothing to repent and the Jesus myth is of no consequence to me as anything other than a cultural curiosity. (Other than the clear and present danger that fundamentalist religious belief, no matter what the brand, presents)

Just because you have difficulty understanding my version of the nature of being does not make it nonsense...it speaks more of your apparent failure to try to think rather than blindly believe.

If you have a problem with the 'nonsense I talk' address that.

[McCulloch]

Your teapot story is nonsense and quit reading Bertrand Russell its nonsense.

What exactly qualifies you to judge Bertrand Russell's merit?

He became a fellow of the Royal Society in 1908. His Principia Mathematica, is considered a classic in its field. His A History of Western Philosophy (1945) was a best-seller. In 1949, Russell was awarded the Order of Merit and in 1950, he won a Nobel Prize for his writings. He influenced such writers as Richard Dawkins, Ludwig Wittgenstein, A. J. Ayer, Rudolf Carnap, Kurt Gödel, Karl Popper, W. V. Quine and Noam Chomsky.

While you may disagree with him, it is nonsense for you to describe him as nonsensical.

[Cathar1950]

Before I go to lunch I just want to say that tea pots exist and things do orbit.

Also Biker we have gone over your misunderstanding about the 5700 fragment of manuscripts, all second century or later, and the math used to come up with 99% correct is wrong. Also your writings are not historical writings or eyewitness accounts.

[Biker]

Before I go to lunch I just want to say that tea pots exist and things do orbit.

Also Biker we have gone over your misunderstanding about the 5700 fragment of manuscripts, all second century or later, and the math used to come up with 99% correct is wrong. Also your writings are not historical writings or eyewitness accounts.

Usual nonsense. As always you make wrong unsupported speculative conjecture which is meaningless.
Why don't you provide some evidence just once, for these hollow fantasies?

Biker

[Biker]

Your teapot story is nonsense and quit reading Bertrand Russell its nonsense.

What exactly qualifies you to judge Bertrand Russell's merit?

He became a fellow of the Royal Society in 1908. His Principia Mathematica, is considered a classic in its field. His A History of Western Philosophy (1945) was a best-seller. In 1949, Russell was awarded the Order of Merit and in 1950, he won a Nobel Prize for his writings. He influenced such writers as Richard Dawkins, Ludwig Wittgenstein, A. J. Ayer, Rudolf Carnap, Kurt Gödel, Karl Popper, W. V. Quine and Noam Chomsky.

While you may disagree with him, it is nonsense for you to describe him as nonsensical.

You just illustrated my point!
Your nonsense about my non nonsense, is in fact nonsense.

Biker

[Wyvern]

First The New Testament is considered by most to be divinely inspired writing since the inception. The Iliad we are not certian it was even written by Homer, but since it's inception it is considered to be nothing more than a poem.
So, two distinct class of document.

Yes, the Iliad was for most of its history thought to be nothing more than a poem about a war between the greeks and the mythical city of Troy. Until an archaeologist went against the grain and thought the Iliad was a history did this view change. He used the Iliad as a direct guide to finding the city of Troy and it turns out he was right, Troy was a major city in Anatolia.

The actual difference between the two is one is a religious text and because of such it is given a pass on the reality it passes off as truth in favor of its greater Truth. If you treat the Iliad in the same manner as you do the Bible since one thing is proven true all of it is then true.

[Cathar1950]

Before I go to lunch I just want to say that tea pots exist and things do orbit.

Also Biker we have gone over your misunderstanding about the 5700 fragment of manuscripts, all second century or later, and the math used to come up with 99% correct is wrong. Also your writings are not historical writings or eyewitness accounts.

Usual nonsense. As always you make wrong unsupported speculative conjecture which is meaningless.
Why don't you provide some evidence just once, for these hollow fantasies?

Biker

I have provided support and evidence. It either goes over your head or you ignore it like the 99% garbage you keep repeating. I even gave you Ehrman's personal take on the poor math and you ignored it. I can go back and find my posts if you like where I tried to explain it to you a number of times.
You fail to realize that your whole belief system amounts to a small selection of available second century fantasies for which you fail to supply evidence and support except from those already committed to a speculative conjecture held by the proto-orthodox that failed to bring a consensus until forced by Constantine.

[Dons]

Biker:

…it is not in the same class as the New Testament because Jesus was God manifest in the flesh, and the historical record is in tact, and the NT clearly lays out Gods plan of salvation and how Jesus Christ accomplished it with details on the future culmination of all things here on earth, by Jesus.


Don:


Me thinks you have mixed too much cow dung into your bread, or get your cow dung mixed up with man’s dung.


Ezekiel 4:14-16 (King James Version)

15…. Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith.


Thor is coming after you with thunder and lighting so you better repent to the one true god Zeus.



Don

[Dons]

Biker:

Usual nonsense. As always you make wrong unsupported speculative conjecture which is meaningless.
Why don't you provide some evidence just once, for these hollow fantasies?

Biker



Don:


The hollow fantasy is that you think a god wrote a book. Not only is that assuming without merit, but in the book Paul in Romans 3:7 says it is OK to lie for the glory of god.


Romans 3:7 (King James Version)

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?


When a book tells you that it is a lie, or the very high probability that what Paul wrote is nothing but a lie, and you sill take the text as hard cold fact, you have some very serious problems to deal with.


I happen to know that green men in Mars are controlling your thoughts, they have a grip on your mind. You cannot prove me wrong so this is a fact, accordingly you need to repent to Jupiter and lay your sins at the feet of Yemaya, the Goddess
of the Ocean, for your cleansing—then go and sin no more.


You have redeeming qualities Biker, but you need to get your gods under control or you will go batty worse than you are.


You certainly do not have the ability to know one god from other or no god at all. So you need to be taught. Show why the Greek gods are myth, and your god is not, and if you listen to yourself you will be enlightened beyond measure.


Don