Questioning God's Chosen Communication

[POI]

(1) Why would an omniscient God reveal to ancient societies the questions that modern scientific communities would be interested in? (2) Why would God care more about making scientific knowledge available in these texts versus addressing how He wanted humans to live?

For debate: Does the provided video below answer the above two questions sufficiently? If not, why not? If so, then I guess God is inept?

[POI]

Is your position that colonial chattel slaves were treated "well"?

Of course not but it varied and only 1/4 of the southern American had slaves at all. The US slave trade was horrible.

Is your position that colonial chattel slaves were bought and then killed or beaten to death?

My position is that it's safe to say that being a chattel slave "sucked." Are you glad it was abolished by most societies, or not?

Of course. Notice it was abolished from within in the west, although it’s not gone from the earth.

God's position is that it is okay, and much of the globe instead chose to abolish it. Much of the globe has now operated in spite of God's wishes to deem it okay. You do not order the abolition of something that is objectively okay, do you?

Totally untrue. But you wish to accuse God of evil so what is to be said to such blindness?

You are mistaken. I'm not accusing God of being 'evil.' I'm instead demonstrating that the God of the Bible is okay with chattel slavery. If you think chattel slavery is evil, then you will need to take that conclusion up with the God you believe in. Why? Because I have objectively demonstrated that God is okay with the topic of chattel slavery. This is why The Tanager is trying to say God is not okay with chattel slavery, while God is telling his readers he certainly is okay with it... If you are not okay with chattel slavery, then you are at odds with the God you worship. You will need to ask the God you worship why he is okay with a topic in which you believe is "evil"?

Again, much of the globe has now operated in spite of God's wishes to deem chattel slavery okay. You do not order the abolition of something that is objectively okay, do you?

Are you ok with slavery? Can we say you are and you don’t feel insulted? Here’s the logic:

You say, (I might be wrong) slavery is evil
You say, Person XZY is ok with slavery.
Therefore you say Person XZY is ok with evil.

When you say someone is OK with horrible treatment of man to man, that’s accusing them of being OK with evil and are then evil.

But let’s test you. How should God have eliminated slavery bamm? And while you’re at it, how shall God eliminate the evil done today? What’s your superior plan? Are you personally working against evil?How? You’re not? So you’re OK with the evil going on?

Do you see the problem with assuming lack of eliminating something even if it means unjust collateral death is itself evil?

You know, God was not OK with the evil in Sodom. Do you like His way of eliminating it?

Thou protest too much. My argument and point are that God has no problem expressing his "disdain" for many things he sees "wrong" or "evil". This, of course, does not mean people would stop doing them. However, Chattel slavery does not make that list. He is instead okay with it.

Much of the globe has now operated in spite of God's wishes to deem chattel slavery okay. You do not order the abolition of something that is objectively okay, do you?

[POI]

Since God told people He expects and pretty much demands we treat others as we’d like to be treated, that let’s out that institution.

Well, it's not this simple. The specifics outweigh the generals. Meaning, if God had never weighed in on chattel slavery, you would have a point. Which is the 'golden rule.' However, God weighs in on topics in which he feels needed further elaboration, clarification, and/or more specifics, because it was not merely a fringe topic. It was instead important enough for him to express his instruction. In the case for chattel slavery, God tells folks how to do it right. He could have just as easily expressed his request for its abolition, like he does for murder, trespassing, worshipping the wrong God(s), etc. But he doesn't. He instead tells folks how to do it the right way. Hence, there exists exceptions to the "golden rule". And chattel slavery is apparently one of those exceptions.

But thanks to your prodding, I dug a bit deeper into US slavery. Pretty interesting. The vast majority of African slaves went to S or C America. Doesn’t make the US better. I already knew the Arab nations had African slaves longer and were horrible to them sterilizing them and much worse, but that doesn’t make US slavery good although better than the arabs. The northern states released their slaves and organizations bought and freed them from the south. So if these less than perfect men saw the evils, the practice is evil. I wish you’d recognize God isn’t less aware.

The only "good slavery" is God's brand, which is expressed in the OT and NT.

- Beating them is okay as long as you do not kill them or ruin their face. It is also common sense to realize that a dead slave, or an extremely injured slave, is a worthless slave. They paid good money for them.
- Treating them as your property is okay. Passing them to your kids is also okay.
- Breeding new slaves is also okay. Fingers crossed these servants take the bait or do not read the fine print.
- Telling slaves to work really hard to please God, so they do not instead: run away, commit suicide, rebel, and/or become hopeless (which might cause lower productivity); was also approved by God.

You know, nations long ago decided on rules of war. RULES OF WAR!! Why not recognize war is horrible and just forbid it altogether instead of establishing how it was to be conducted and how prisoners were to be treated? Why not demand all prisoners be released? Do they all then approve of war and its destruction because they made rules instead of eliminating it? Do you see the parallel?

God's rules of war, the only rules that should matter to you, include sanctioned rape and chattel slavery. If you watch the video, you will see why.

[Mae von H]

Is your position that colonial chattel slaves were treated "well"?

Of course not but it varied and only 1/4 of the southern American had slaves at all. The US slave trade was horrible.

Is your position that colonial chattel slaves were bought and then killed or beaten to death?

My position is that it's safe to say that being a chattel slave "sucked." Are you glad it was abolished by most societies, or not?

Of course. Notice it was abolished from within in the west, although it’s not gone from the earth.

God's position is that it is okay, and much of the globe instead chose to abolish it. Much of the globe has now operated in spite of God's wishes to deem it okay. You do not order the abolition of something that is objectively okay, do you?

Totally untrue. But you wish to accuse God of evil so what is to be said to such blindness?

You are mistaken. I'm not accusing God of being 'evil.' I'm instead demonstrating that the God of the Bible is okay with chattel slavery. If you think chattel slavery is evil, then you will need to take that conclusion up with the God you believe in. Why? Because I have objectively demonstrated that God is okay with the topic of chattel slavery. This is why The Tanager is trying to say God is not okay with chattel slavery, while God is telling his readers he certainly is okay with it... If you are not okay with chattel slavery, then you are at odds with the God you worship. You will need to ask the God you worship why he is okay with a topic in which you believe is "evil"?

Again, much of the globe has now operated in spite of God's wishes to deem chattel slavery okay. You do not order the abolition of something that is objectively okay, do you?

Are you ok with slavery? Can we say you are and you don’t feel insulted? Here’s the logic:

You say, (I might be wrong) slavery is evil
You say, Person XZY is ok with slavery.
Therefore you say Person XZY is ok with evil.

When you say someone is OK with horrible treatment of man to man, that’s accusing them of being OK with evil and are then evil.

But let’s test you. How should God have eliminated slavery bamm? And while you’re at it, how shall God eliminate the evil done today? What’s your superior plan? Are you personally working against evil?How? You’re not? So you’re OK with the evil going on?

Do you see the problem with assuming lack of eliminating something even if it means unjust collateral death is itself evil?

You know, God was not OK with the evil in Sodom. Do you like His way of eliminating it?

Thou protest too much. My argument and point are that God has no problem expressing his "disdain" for many things he sees "wrong" or "evil". This, of course, does not mean people would stop doing them. However, Chattel slavery does not make that list. He is instead okay with it.

You are in error because you wish to accuse God of evil. I ask again, how shall God eliminate slavery and worse evils on the earth? Come up with a plan please. God already expressed his dislike of injustice many times, including slavery, bribes, hate and so on. You refuse to see it. I understand the difficulties of moving a whole culture from doing evil to doing good. You think that because it’s didn’t happen immediately, it was never a goal.

Again, do you do something’s about the wrong done around you? If not, you’re OK with it?

Much of the globe has now operated in spite of God's wishes to deem chattel slavery okay. You do not order the abolition of something that is objectively okay, do you?

You need to read about modern slavery. It is alive and functioning. Why doesn’t your government end it if it’s so easy?

[POI]

You are in error because you wish to accuse God of evil.

(Second time) You are mistaken. I'm not accusing God of being 'evil.' I'm instead demonstrating that the God of the Bible is okay with chattel slavery. If you think chattel slavery is evil, then you will need to take that conclusion up with the God you believe in. Why? Because I have objectively demonstrated that God is okay with the topic of chattel slavery. This is why The Tanager is trying to say God is not okay with chattel slavery, while God is telling his readers he certainly is okay with it... If you are not okay with chattel slavery, then you are at odds with the God you worship. You will need to ask the God you worship why he is okay with a topic in which you believe is "evil"?

I ask again, how shall God eliminate slavery and worse evils on the earth?

I've already addressed this concern. Allow me to elaborate further. If God allows for free will, he cannot eliminate it. However, he could at least express his disapproval. But where chattel slavery is concerned, he does not. Instead, he stated it is okay. So, if you believe chattel slavery is evil, then you have a bone to pick with the God you worship.

You think that because it’s didn’t happen immediately, it was never a goal.

God's goal for chattel slavery is clear. If you are going to do it, do it <this> way. He never instead abolishes it.

You need to read about modern slavery. It is alive and functioning. Why doesn’t your government end it if it’s so easy?

God, just like the government, cannot stop it. But they can both express that it is abolished. The government has, and God has not. Why is that? Well, because God thinks it is okay.

[TRANSPONDER]

Is your position that colonial chattel slaves were treated "well"?

Of course not but it varied and only 1/4 of the southern American had slaves at all. The US slave trade was horrible.

Is your position that colonial chattel slaves were bought and then killed or beaten to death?

My position is that it's safe to say that being a chattel slave "sucked." Are you glad it was abolished by most societies, or not?

Of course. Notice it was abolished from within in the west, although it’s not gone from the earth.

God's position is that it is okay, and much of the globe instead chose to abolish it. Much of the globe has now operated in spite of God's wishes to deem it okay. You do not order the abolition of something that is objectively okay, do you?

Totally untrue. But you wish to accuse God of evil so what is to be said to such blindness?

You are mistaken. I'm not accusing God of being 'evil.' I'm instead demonstrating that the God of the Bible is okay with chattel slavery. If you think chattel slavery is evil, then you will need to take that conclusion up with the God you believe in. Why? Because I have objectively demonstrated that God is okay with the topic of chattel slavery. This is why The Tanager is trying to say God is not okay with chattel slavery, while God is telling his readers he certainly is okay with it... If you are not okay with chattel slavery, then you are at odds with the God you worship. You will need to ask the God you worship why he is okay with a topic in which you believe is "evil"?

Again, much of the globe has now operated in spite of God's wishes to deem chattel slavery okay. You do not order the abolition of something that is objectively okay, do you?

Are you ok with slavery? Can we say you are and you don’t feel insulted? Here’s the logic:

You say, (I might be wrong) slavery is evil
You say, Person XZY is ok with slavery.
Therefore you say Person XZY is ok with evil.

When you say someone is OK with horrible treatment of man to man, that’s accusing them of being OK with evil and are then evil.

But let’s test you. How should God have eliminated slavery bamm? And while you’re at it, how shall God eliminate the evil done today? What’s your superior plan? Are you personally working against evil?How? You’re not? So you’re OK with the evil going on?

Do you see the problem with assuming lack of eliminating something even if it means unjust collateral death is itself evil?

You know, God was not OK with the evil in Sodom. Do you like His way of eliminating it?

Thou protest too much. My argument and point are that God has no problem expressing his "disdain" for many things he sees "wrong" or "evil". This, of course, does not mean people would stop doing them. However, Chattel slavery does not make that list. He is instead okay with it.

You are in error because you wish to accuse God of evil. I ask again, how shall God eliminate slavery and worse evils on the earth? Come up with a plan please. God already expressed his dislike of injustice many times, including slavery, bribes, hate and so on. You refuse to see it. I understand the difficulties of moving a whole culture from doing evil to doing good. You think that because it’s didn’t happen immediately, it was never a goal.

Again, do you do something’s about the wrong done around you? If not, you’re OK with it?

Much of the globe has now operated in spite of God's wishes to deem chattel slavery okay. You do not order the abolition of something that is objectively okay, do you?

You need to read about modern slavery. It is alive and functioning. Why doesn’t your government end it if it’s so easy?

You miss (or evade) the point, even skipping the debate about why God does Stop evil supposing he has the power, that does not explain why, when God had ten rules (four about grovelling to only him) he didn't simply say 'No slaves'. Even if people didn't always do that, this was the case with other orders.

Madame, there is no excuse, pretext or evasion that gets over this other than to say (and it looks like you did) slavery is actually ok. It is meaningless and in fact disreputable for an entity to claim he is against injustice and then condone it.

"A Hebrew should not own another person as property, but since you will probably do this, here are some rules.." If I can do that, why can a God who is supposed to be good and is against injustice?

I won't even dwell on the various Bible apologetic and attached (let the reader understand) apologetics to equate slavery with doing a job to earn money and paying taxes. Nor on the fact that it goes on here and there though (like Democracy) even countries that are not in the least Democratic pretend they are and the general human moral view is that slavery is wrong and should not be done.

Human abolitionists did that. The Bible did not and I don't even see that any Church did, though of course those who passed laws and took action based on human (even Species) reasoning ("Am I not a man and a brother?" Not Thou shalt not own Slaves) were Christians or pretended to be.

We continue to expect various poor (at best) excuses to get rid of this annoyance for Bible apologists: "God condones slavery". As usual, that a Believers comes up with wretched excuses like 'It goes on even today' and 'it wasn't Really slavery" (for non Hebrew slaves, it was) and 'God couldn't change it when He could at least tell them and he told them not to do other things they would do or why was sin' sacrifice needed?

The main point is that the reader will see there is no good excuse, and Bible apologists have done their best (the Indentured servitude lie was their best shot) and it signally failed. That the God -character in the Bible is not 'good' and is in fact downright evil, and we don't need to make that mythical deity so - gust point it out. And Slavery is just one of the doozies. And by no means the only one.

[Clownboat]

But let’s test you. How should God have eliminated slavery bamm?

Off the top of my non omnipotent head:
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the spherical earth and also doesn't approve of humans owning other humans as property.

It's really not as hard as you would like to imagine it being.

[Mae von H]

But let’s test you. How should God have eliminated slavery bamm?

Off the top of my non omnipotent head:
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the spherical earth and also doesn't approve of humans owning other humans as property.

It's really not as hard as you would like to imagine it being.

God doesn’t approve of murder. Are there then no murders? It’s not as easy as you imagine it to be.

[POI]

But let’s test you. How should God have eliminated slavery bamm?

Off the top of my non omnipotent head:
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the spherical earth and also doesn't approve of humans owning other humans as property.

It's really not as hard as you would like to imagine it being.

God doesn’t approve of murder. Are there then no murders? It’s not as easy as you imagine it to be.

You are still missing my point. Skeptics are not arguing that God doesn't disapprove of murder. It's only justified when he commands it.

But unless he violates free will, he cannot stop all murder. But we at least know he does not approve of murder, in which he does not directly command himself. However, God weighed in on the topic chattel slavery as well. He approves of it, as he weighed in on it and instructed folks on how to do it the correct way. You think this act is evil. Why do you not agree with the God you worship? He thinks it is okay, you disagree.

[Mae von H]

For those who are satisfied in accusing God of evil, there is no other satisfaction (such as that of understanding) available.

“Will you even put me in the wrong? Will you condemn me that you may be in the right?” Job 40:8

The other obvious element is jeering so common in those against Him. We see this in Jesus’ accusers too. Seems to be in the warp and woof of hating God.

[POI]

For those who are satisfied in accusing God of evil, there is no other satisfaction (such as that of understanding) available.

“Will you even put me in the wrong? Will you condemn me that you may be in the right?” Job 40:8

The other obvious element is jeering so common in those against Him. We see this in Jesus’ accusers too. Seems to be in the warp and woof of hating God.

Yet again, I'm not accusing God of 'evil.' That would be you. You think chattel slavery is evil, but God does not. You are in direct conflict with the God in which you worship.