To suffer is to be human. This is the essence of Tolstoi. And that “The progress of mankind towards good is brought about by those who suffer, not by those who inflict, martyrdom.” The progress is our suffering. The good is utopia. But what is that goodness towards which we are striving; and how can we achieve it? George Carlin has said “I look around and don’t see a way out.” Is there a way out? A remedy for our suffering? A global remedy? I certainly hope so. And I hope I never lose that hope and keep it close to the hearth of my heart.
What is it that a person wants most out of life? First, let us examine what is most essential to our preservation. The thing most essential to life is the act of sex. Without sex, without the biological imperative programmed in our DNA, the continuation of life, all life, would end. Ingrained within our psyches is desire to live. And necessary to survival is the incentive to plod on, happiness. Happiness which provides to us a reason to fight for life tenaciously and whispers to us to not even contemplate “To be or not to be?”. We find happiness in eating and sleeping and making love, which are all essential to our survival. But beyond the physical is another well from which to draw, the emotional bond of trust: friendship. Essential to our survival is the forming of tribes. There is strength in numbers and ones likelihood of finding food and protection is greatly increased with the aid of others. It is in the mixing of the wells of friendship and sex, that we find love, and from which we take many, refreshing, sustaining draughts.
We all know this. But what I’m proposing is the method by which to approach the garnering of this joy. I think our salvation lies in looking to others for our own fulfillment. In making others happy, I think, is from where we derive greatest happiness, as a result of serotonin, supposedly. Laughter is infectious and so is a smile. And if I know that smile was caused by something I did that only serves to amplify the warmness of my emotional state. I think that utopia is characterized by global happiness derived from a system in which everyone caters, not to their own, but to welfare of others. In such a system no one would have to worry about their own well being because it would already be taken care of. Throughout history technology, the application of most valuable asset, our intellect, has improved the quality of life. In biotechnology lies the key to providing people the incentive to abandon selfishness. Eventually, when the nucleotides of DNA can be hacked like the 0 and 1s of a computer, science will be able to provide to us a gland to release massive spikes of chemical euphoria whenever one does something kind for another. In this our essentially selfish prerogatives are given new orientation and a more positive and philanthropic application.
There is much suffering in the world, as is the goal of Buddhists to remedy. But the first step toward that utopia of the future is understanding the source of that unhappiness. Miscommunication the source of all problems in any relationship, including the relationship between all of humankind. Even more deeply rooted than this is the way in which a person finds happiness. Understand, that there is no evil; there are only psyches warped by childhood trauma and chemical imbalance which find their own joy in a nonproductive way, by depriving others of happiness. The first step towards utopia lies in opening your heart to everyone and seeking to make them happy; and to find personal joy in doing this. Think globally, act locally. With a vision of the utopian future in mind make the happiness of others your priority and true joy bereft of guilt will be found. “The progress of mankind towards good is brought about by those who suffer, not by those who inflict, martyrdom.” Be a part of the solution, not the problem, and use your pain to create art not more pain. Let us learn from our mistakes and not spread more suffering even though we swim amongst it.
Through pain art is forged. Is “this” art? I certainly hope the fires of the forge have amounted to something. Or else what have we to live for?
Utopia and human psychology
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Gangstawombatninja
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Post #2
Welcome to the forums, Gangstawombatninja!
Here are the rules. I have to ask you, as per rule 3..
(When you start a new topic in a debate subforum, it must state a clearly defined question(s) for debate. )
...to please provide a question for debate, otherwise the topic may be moved to more appropriate forum.
Thank you.
Here are the rules. I have to ask you, as per rule 3..
(When you start a new topic in a debate subforum, it must state a clearly defined question(s) for debate. )
...to please provide a question for debate, otherwise the topic may be moved to more appropriate forum.
Thank you.
-
Gangstawombatninja
- Student
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:34 am
- Location: Pacific Northwest
Question
Post #3Ok, I'm sorry for not reading the rules very carefully. I'm sorry for not providing a question. I feel really stupid. So here's the question my thing is adressing:
If God is good and loves all his children equally why does He let His children suffer? Freedom of choice, yes, but He could still reveal Himself and we would still have the choice to do what we wish. I'm sure the first answer will be "He's testing us." "That's what faith is."
Ok. My thoughts: in school I believe learning the material is secondary to anything else. I think teachers should just give us the test the night before. As long as you know every answer as your taking the test that's all that really matters and if every answer is fresh in your head and stuff and you understand every answer perfectly seeing as how you were given the answer verabtim the night before you'll probably remember it longer, which is the next key in learning, retaining what you've learned. I've practically failed most of my Anatomy tests (senior in high school) this year and it doesn't help me learn that material by us just moving on.
I'm suring everyones come back for this is that I need to take learning into my own hands. And there's a lot of truth to that. But find Anatomy (at least in regards to the class lol) very boring. I'm only taking it because I feel very much obligated to take a science course.
I'm sure you're going to say it's to prepare me for college where teachers can't teach you everything in class. But I'm not getting prepared even though I should be taking it into my own hands.
But I've over extended the analogy. God (whom I don't LITERALLY believe in, but for the sake of argument) should teach us not trick. The Bible? Yeah, well why doesn't God just reveal himself to all of us on a conscious level?
Faith is all about finding hope and awe. Well, if we KNEW God existed that wouldn't detract from the hope and awe we would find in Him. In fact, it would only serve to banish all doubt, that nasty little emotion. Because, as John Donne said in... oh, crap, w/e, some poem of his, he adressing reason and faith as being the two filters through which pass all his perceptions. Well, faith longs for reason to reassure it because it technically can't be proven only substanciated by logic not fact (Religion is based upon faith, which a romanticized way of saying belief without proof). But as long as reason is telling you some things aren't adding up you will always have doubt and your faith and reason will be out of balance. So strive to consolidate science, which is the study of the natural order of things which is absolute (anything that happens is possible, and probably explainable), with faith. Both are looking for answers. Two head are better than one. Let your faith be based upon our current understanding of the universe and then let if fly as far as your imagination will tell you. Science is the perception of God in that science is the study of the natural order of things and the natural order of thing are the mechanics with which God clocked the universe and set it to work to. As Galileo said "Mathematics is the language with which God wrote the universe." (I think that was him, if I remember correctly).
Wow, I'm a blabber mouth. Talk, talk, talk all the time. Any way the question: Why doesn't God heal all the sufferings of world since it is in His power and he cares?
Oh, and literalist Christians, try to consolidate this pickle: Isaiah 45:7, God talking: "I form the light and create the darkness, I make the weal and the woe, I the Lord to all these things." So, if God makes all the suffering of the world doesn't that make Him evil? Oh, and then there's Ecclestiastes Ch. 7 (the end of it) that says women are more bitter than death. And then there's Second Kings (end of) Ch.2: some village boys call and old bald prophet baldy, baldy and the prophet (I think it's Elijah) curses them in the name of the Lord and God send two she bears to mall 40 of the boys.
Is that divine justice? What about Jesus' loving your enemy? Doesn't all that prove God is half evil? And if God is ENTIRELY good why doesn't He he heal all the suffering of the world.
That's enough questions, right?
If God is good and loves all his children equally why does He let His children suffer? Freedom of choice, yes, but He could still reveal Himself and we would still have the choice to do what we wish. I'm sure the first answer will be "He's testing us." "That's what faith is."
Ok. My thoughts: in school I believe learning the material is secondary to anything else. I think teachers should just give us the test the night before. As long as you know every answer as your taking the test that's all that really matters and if every answer is fresh in your head and stuff and you understand every answer perfectly seeing as how you were given the answer verabtim the night before you'll probably remember it longer, which is the next key in learning, retaining what you've learned. I've practically failed most of my Anatomy tests (senior in high school) this year and it doesn't help me learn that material by us just moving on.
I'm suring everyones come back for this is that I need to take learning into my own hands. And there's a lot of truth to that. But find Anatomy (at least in regards to the class lol) very boring. I'm only taking it because I feel very much obligated to take a science course.
I'm sure you're going to say it's to prepare me for college where teachers can't teach you everything in class. But I'm not getting prepared even though I should be taking it into my own hands.
But I've over extended the analogy. God (whom I don't LITERALLY believe in, but for the sake of argument) should teach us not trick. The Bible? Yeah, well why doesn't God just reveal himself to all of us on a conscious level?
Faith is all about finding hope and awe. Well, if we KNEW God existed that wouldn't detract from the hope and awe we would find in Him. In fact, it would only serve to banish all doubt, that nasty little emotion. Because, as John Donne said in... oh, crap, w/e, some poem of his, he adressing reason and faith as being the two filters through which pass all his perceptions. Well, faith longs for reason to reassure it because it technically can't be proven only substanciated by logic not fact (Religion is based upon faith, which a romanticized way of saying belief without proof). But as long as reason is telling you some things aren't adding up you will always have doubt and your faith and reason will be out of balance. So strive to consolidate science, which is the study of the natural order of things which is absolute (anything that happens is possible, and probably explainable), with faith. Both are looking for answers. Two head are better than one. Let your faith be based upon our current understanding of the universe and then let if fly as far as your imagination will tell you. Science is the perception of God in that science is the study of the natural order of things and the natural order of thing are the mechanics with which God clocked the universe and set it to work to. As Galileo said "Mathematics is the language with which God wrote the universe." (I think that was him, if I remember correctly).
Wow, I'm a blabber mouth. Talk, talk, talk all the time. Any way the question: Why doesn't God heal all the sufferings of world since it is in His power and he cares?
Oh, and literalist Christians, try to consolidate this pickle: Isaiah 45:7, God talking: "I form the light and create the darkness, I make the weal and the woe, I the Lord to all these things." So, if God makes all the suffering of the world doesn't that make Him evil? Oh, and then there's Ecclestiastes Ch. 7 (the end of it) that says women are more bitter than death. And then there's Second Kings (end of) Ch.2: some village boys call and old bald prophet baldy, baldy and the prophet (I think it's Elijah) curses them in the name of the Lord and God send two she bears to mall 40 of the boys.
Is that divine justice? What about Jesus' loving your enemy? Doesn't all that prove God is half evil? And if God is ENTIRELY good why doesn't He he heal all the suffering of the world.
That's enough questions, right?
Post #4
Gangstawombatninja (I'm from Australia, like wombats, and I've only ever seen a few in gangs wearing bling, though ninjas are quite common, heheh...but anyway), Gangstawombatninja, good question, and as old as sin.
Good is good. We read in 1 John, 'God is love'--it's not just an attribute, it's Him. This scripture, which i believe is one of the boldest in the Bible, gives us an insight not only into God's character, but indeed into His very nature. God IS love.
Having cleared that up, onto your questions.
Is that divine justice?
God is the judge of what is right and wrong. You cannot criticise God's judgement, because you are an athiest, and therefore you can judge no one's moral code.
What about Jesus' loving your enemy?
Absolutely. As a believer of Christ, I have to love others not just as myself, but as Christ loved me--and that's a big sort of love!
But this Prophet (it was Elisha, not Elijah) was under the Old Covernant. Jesus lived in Old Testament times, but brought the New Covernant. God is God, He does not change (Heb. 13.8), but He does have a plan of salvation.
Doesn't all that prove God is half evil?
No, God is ALL good. That is why he is HOLY.
And if God is ENTIRELY good why doesn't He he heal all the suffering of the world.
Suffering entered the world by man's transgressions (Rom. 5). In the Garden when man sinned, he was asking for a life without God. Without God, the universes ceases to exist, so we could not have what we asked for. Instead, we were given a taste of life without God. What a bitter taste--God is not responsible for pain, death, suffering, wars, rape--that's sin and it's our doing. But through Christ Jesus God broke the Curse, and offered reconcilliation for all men to God.
Also, you said:
Good is good. We read in 1 John, 'God is love'--it's not just an attribute, it's Him. This scripture, which i believe is one of the boldest in the Bible, gives us an insight not only into God's character, but indeed into His very nature. God IS love.
Having cleared that up, onto your questions.
Is that divine justice?
God is the judge of what is right and wrong. You cannot criticise God's judgement, because you are an athiest, and therefore you can judge no one's moral code.
What about Jesus' loving your enemy?
Absolutely. As a believer of Christ, I have to love others not just as myself, but as Christ loved me--and that's a big sort of love!
But this Prophet (it was Elisha, not Elijah) was under the Old Covernant. Jesus lived in Old Testament times, but brought the New Covernant. God is God, He does not change (Heb. 13.8), but He does have a plan of salvation.
Doesn't all that prove God is half evil?
No, God is ALL good. That is why he is HOLY.
And if God is ENTIRELY good why doesn't He he heal all the suffering of the world.
Suffering entered the world by man's transgressions (Rom. 5). In the Garden when man sinned, he was asking for a life without God. Without God, the universes ceases to exist, so we could not have what we asked for. Instead, we were given a taste of life without God. What a bitter taste--God is not responsible for pain, death, suffering, wars, rape--that's sin and it's our doing. But through Christ Jesus God broke the Curse, and offered reconcilliation for all men to God.
Also, you said:
Jesus IS God. The Bible IS the Word of God. But by the way so many badmouth God, I wouldn't blame Him if He wanted nothing to do with us at anyway--me inclued, because I'm a 'sinner among sinners'. But that's the beauty of Grace and Mercy, that God would love us even when we are underserving of love.But I've over extended the analogy. God (whom I don't LITERALLY believe in, but for the sake of argument) should teach us not trick. The Bible? Yeah, well why doesn't God just reveal himself to all of us on a conscious level?
Post #5
Gangstawombatninja (I'm from Australia, like wombats, and I've only ever seen a few in gangs wearing blingbling, though ninjas are quite common, heheh...but anyway), Gangstawombatninja, good question.
Good is good. We read in 1 John, 'God is love'--it's not just an attribute, it's Him. This scripture, which i believe is one of the boldest in the Bible, gives us an insight not only into God's character, but indeed into His very nature. God IS love.
Having cleared that up, onto your questions.
Is that divine justice?
God is the judge of what is right and wrong. You cannot criticise God's judgement, because you are an athiest, and therefore you can judge no one's moral code.
What about Jesus' loving your enemy?
Absolutely. As a believer of Christ, I have to love others not just as myself, but as Christ loved me--and that's a big sort of love!
But this Prophet (it was Elisha, not Elijah) was under the Old Covernant. Jesus lived in Old Testament times, but brought the New Covernant. God is God, He does not change (Heb. 13.8 ), but He does have a plan of salvation.
Doesn't all that prove God is half evil?
No, God is ALL good. That is why he is HOLY.
And if God is ENTIRELY good why doesn't He he heal all the suffering of the world.
Suffering entered the world by man's transgressions (Rom. 5). In the Garden when man sinned, he was asking for a life without God. Without God, the universes ceases to exist, so we could not have what we asked for. Instead, we were given a taste of life without God. What a bitter taste--God is not responsible for pain, death, suffering, wars, rape--that's sin and it's our doing. But through Christ Jesus God broke the Curse, and offered reconcilliation for all men to God.
Also, you said:
Good is good. We read in 1 John, 'God is love'--it's not just an attribute, it's Him. This scripture, which i believe is one of the boldest in the Bible, gives us an insight not only into God's character, but indeed into His very nature. God IS love.
Having cleared that up, onto your questions.
Is that divine justice?
God is the judge of what is right and wrong. You cannot criticise God's judgement, because you are an athiest, and therefore you can judge no one's moral code.
What about Jesus' loving your enemy?
Absolutely. As a believer of Christ, I have to love others not just as myself, but as Christ loved me--and that's a big sort of love!
But this Prophet (it was Elisha, not Elijah) was under the Old Covernant. Jesus lived in Old Testament times, but brought the New Covernant. God is God, He does not change (Heb. 13.8 ), but He does have a plan of salvation.
Doesn't all that prove God is half evil?
No, God is ALL good. That is why he is HOLY.
And if God is ENTIRELY good why doesn't He he heal all the suffering of the world.
Suffering entered the world by man's transgressions (Rom. 5). In the Garden when man sinned, he was asking for a life without God. Without God, the universes ceases to exist, so we could not have what we asked for. Instead, we were given a taste of life without God. What a bitter taste--God is not responsible for pain, death, suffering, wars, rape--that's sin and it's our doing. But through Christ Jesus God broke the Curse, and offered reconcilliation for all men to God.
Also, you said:
Jesus IS God. The Bible IS the Word of God. But the way so many badmouth God, I wouldn't blame Him if He wanted nothing to do with us at anyway--me inclued, because I'm a 'sinner among sinners'. But that's the beauty of Grace and Mercy, that God would love us even when we are underserving of love.But I've over extended the analogy. God (whom I don't LITERALLY believe in, but for the sake of argument) should teach us not trick. The Bible? Yeah, well why doesn't God just reveal himself to all of us on a conscious level?
