John 3:3 Could you restart from 'scratch'?

[Masterblaster]

Hello

John 3:3 "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

What about you?
Could you restart from 'scratch'?

Why such a severe censure?

This is my opinion which may not be yours. Jesus tells us ,quite plainly, that we are lost. We are going the wrong way, we are doing and saying and thinking the wrong things. We are on the road to nowhere.
Why?
I read every day that Biblical scholars are rejecting Christianity. The current presentation of the message of Jesus about the Kingdom of God, is not standing up to normal scrutiny. It is being regarded as a sham.
All it then becomes is a something like a fake news or a woke or a whatever, to be used for purpose by extreme stupidity and/or cynicism.

Look at Islam, has it a moral core, has it provenance that makes its popularity worthy.? I cannot see it.
Maybe it has.

You should not fake 'God belief'.if you do ,then you are wasting your own time, for nothing real. Let us honestly consider John 3:3.
1.Is what you believe ,real?
2. Do you want to change some of your doctrinal truths?
3. Are you prepared,if needs be, to dump the whole lot?
4. Will you listen and consider new ideas?
5. Will you allow your beliefs to be reborn?

This John 3:3 is a tall order, as a theological decree to any person, believer or atheist!

[TRANSPONDER]

John 3 is worth a read entire as Nicodemus asks about what this born again entains. Jesus does the familiar browbeating but essentially says that it is a spiritual rebirth involving presumably, baptism.

John 3. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, Thus (and John hints at this in other places, notably when Pilate asks about 'Truth'. Truth, light, world, spirit, kingdom grace, bread, knife, fork, spoon, is Faith in Jesus. Or rather the authority his Church, Holy book and preachers. What does being born again mean? Well there may be many schools of thought on that. But Jesus in the gospels seems to compare it to the faith Christianity supposed little children have and expects adults to toss their reasoning in the bin and opt for unquestioning gullibility instead. But deconverts have related (since those still in thrall to religion never tell the truth about these things) have spoken (when not recounting their terror of having sinned) of this odd need to keep being saved. For some who find it ok to just hold the party card go to church once a week and a dollar in the collection plate and otherwise behave like any other heathen the rest of the time, or the ones who treat it like a weekly rock concert, may not worry about such things, but those who get programmed into the religion deep down, it must bother than a lot whether they have really been born again or whether they never really died from sin at all.

[Tulipbee]

[Replying to Masterblaster in post #1]

Ah, Masterblaster, the cosmic inquirer, delving into the depths of theological restarts with John 3:3 – the ultimate cosmic Ctrl+Alt+Del! Let's embark on a celestial journey of rebirth and divine introspection.

John 3:3 drops the bombshell: "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." It's the cosmic reset button, urging us to reconsider our celestial coordinates. But why such a severe censure? Is the Kingdom of God playing hide and seek, and we're stuck with a celestial blindfold?

Now, let's ponder your cosmic quiz for us fellow beings:

Is what we believe real? A celestial reality check – are we on the highway to heavenly truth or stuck in cosmic traffic?
Do we want to tweak our doctrinal truths? A divine renovation – dust off the theological furniture and rearrange the cosmic decor.
Are we prepared to dump the whole lot if needed? A cosmic decluttering – out with the theological baggage, in with the spiritual essentials.
Will we listen and consider new ideas? A cosmic symphony – let the theological melodies of diverse thoughts play in harmonious discourse.
Will we allow our beliefs to be reborn? A celestial metamorphosis – shed the old theological skin and embrace the cosmic butterfly of renewed faith.
John 3:3, the cosmic challenge, beckons us to a theological makeover. It's not just a theological decree; it's an invitation to a divine fashion show – new beliefs, new perspectives, and a celestial wardrobe change!

So, fellow cosmic voyagers, let's navigate the celestial sea of rebirth, and may our theological GPS guide us to the Kingdom of God with a fresh set of coordinates!

[Masterblaster]

Hello Tulipbee
You say - "So, fellow cosmic voyagers, let's navigate the celestial sea of rebirth, and may our theological GPS guide us to the Kingdom of God with a fresh set of coordinates!"

I think that your modern GPS analogy is very apt, and very brilliant. I was using this app last week with a friend of mine around a town. We are not exactly ' spring chickens' , either of us. We got off the freeway a smidge early , we started to engage help from the sun, we watched the arrow move and I gave the order to turn left ,approx 30 metres too soon. The next 10 minutes of our journey was as frustrating as it was scenic. True story, but enough of the anecdote.

We got there in the end!

We depended on Google Maps and it got us there. We told it where we were going, it knew where that was and it had a myriad of options for us to choose from. We could have started in Islamic Iraq.

If we use Jesus ,we can get there. Trust the App. Do not ad-lib, unless you want to waste time. Have good reason and purpose for your journey to make it worthwhile.
Thank You Tulipbee

[Tulipbee]

[Replying to Masterblaster in post #4]

Ah, Masterblaster, the cosmic navigator of celestial highways! I see you've appreciated the celestial GPS analogy, and I'm thrilled to embark on this cosmic journey with you. Your tale of GPS adventures resonates, for even in the cosmic realms of theology, a misstep in coordinates can lead to unexpected detours.

Just as you and your friend trusted the digital oracle of Google Maps, so too can we trust the divine guidance of Jesus, the ultimate spiritual GPS. As we navigate the celestial byways, let's heed the celestial coordinates laid out by the Divine Navigator.

In the cosmic realm of rebirth, let's turn to the timeless celestial scripture for our coordinates. As Jesus declared in the Gospel of John 3:3, "Jesus answered and said to him, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.'"

So, fellow cosmic voyagers, let's recalibrate our spiritual GPS, enter the destination of the Kingdom of God, and follow the celestial path laid out by the Divine Navigator. Ad-libbing may lead to cosmic detours, but with Jesus as our guide, we're bound for the celestial destination with purpose and divine reason.

May our journey be as scenic and spiritually fulfilling as your earthly GPS adventure, Masterblaster!

[Masterblaster]

Hello Tulipbee
You say - "So, fellow cosmic voyagers, let's navigate the celestial sea of rebirth, and may our theological GPS guide us to the Kingdom of God with a fresh set of coordinates!"

I think that your modern GPS analogy is very apt, and very brilliant. I was using this app last week with a friend of mine around a town. We are not exactly ' spring chickens' , either of us. We got off the freeway a smidge early , we started to engage help from the sun, we watched the arrow move and I gave the order to turn left ,approx 30 metres too soon. The next 10 minutes of our journey was as frustrating as it was scenic. True story, but enough of the anecdote.

We got there in the end!

We depended on Google Maps and it got us there. We told it where we were going, it knew where that was and it had a myriad of options for us to choose from. We could have started in Islamic Iraq.

If we use Jesus ,we can get there. Trust the App. Do not ad-lib, unless you want to waste time. Have good reason and purpose for your journey to make it worthwhile.
Thank You Tulipbee

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You are correct. John 3 is an amazing read.

"21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."

I usually dismiss John as it challenges my more basic concepts of the New Testament. The whole chapter is an open minefield of interpretations.

I like the above quote that you mentioned because it demands that we conduct our practices under the cold light of day, thus censuring the furtiveness and stealth of the more nocturnal elements amongst us.

[TRANSPONDER]

I'd tend to do that in the ambience of Rationalism, using evidence (scientifically verified data), logic and reason. Others may think that 'Light' is a synonym for enlightenment or revelation, which is endowing whatever ideas they come up with as having divine origin. We all have to decide how to do it.

John is an interesting gospel. It is so very different from the synoptics which is one of many Bible - whitewashing flams. 'Mark,Matthew and Luke sound alike' is nore of a positive spin that 'John's gospel is bothersomely different'. The same as 'The great omission' is actually the 'Great addition' in Mark and Matthew. And of course the Biblical footnotes 'Some Authorities say..." which, being translated, means, "some later Biblical editors added..."

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

"21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."

You say (about John 3:21) - "I'd tend to do that in the ambience of Rationalism, using evidence (scientifically verified data), logic and reason. Others may think that 'Light' is a synonym for enlightenment or revelation, which is endowing whatever ideas they come up with as having divine origin. We all have to decide how to do it."

In my humble opinion , this is a wonderful piece of writing by you,T. I think that we both read the Bible to produce insight like this.

You describe the place where all journeys began. You describe what has become our Gaza. The theistic and atheistic missiles of mankind were launched from the ambience you describe. The great religions ,in their multi-faceted coats, with their confusing and conflicting complexities started in your place. The nuclear option started there too as did, the logic for it's inception.

Perhaps John 3:3 should read...

Unless mankind is born again....

What do you think, TRANSPONDER

[TRANSPONDER]

That you; you do me too much credit; it is the beauty of logically based truth I suggest deserves the credit. I only point to it.

I do think mankind needs to be Born Again - with understanding and acceptance of what we are - evolved primates, brutish, mischievous, greedy, selfish and violent. We are also sociable, ethical, able and inventive and we have developed that in wonderful ways, as well as horrendous. We need to understand ourselves, biologically logically and rationally as doing it through Myth and religion only sinks us deeper into ignorance.,