Shouldn't the Christian Infighting be Over?

[POI]

1213 made an excellent point in post 556 of this thread (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39327&start=550). He stated:

"People have enough understanding to get it and if someone thinks he doesn't have it, he can always ask wisdom from God to understand it correctly.".

Followed by the given Bible verse to back up his claim (i.e.):

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach; and it will be given to him.
James 1:5

******************

Well, some here claim to have such communication with "the almighty."

For debate: If the above verse is true, as well as Christians whose claims also comport with the Biblical claim, then why do Christians not know some Biblical answers? Case/point, I recently asked about the topic of Genesis being literal, vs. not? The Christian, who answered thus far, claims (paraphrased) -- they cannot know for sure, because the author is dead. Why wouldn't this individual simply ask for wisdom, in accordance with the Bible's claim?

Reference (viewtopic.php?t=41373). Post #16.

[Mae von H]

POI,

There is some points of misunderstanding on your part. We are to ask God for wisdom, or instructions, but not merely to get irrelevant information. We are supposed to learn to do right, love God and man.

Now the question you asked is for information which will not have any impact on your position, will it? And since you don’t believe there is a Being talking to me, of what value can what I say of the matter bring?

Lastly, I already know the answer and He knows I do. It’s useless to try to essentially pretend with Him, and dangerous to try. I know that from ordinary examination of the evidence of which I’ve done considerable.

Jesus said that if we do what he teaches, we will know the truth. Isn’t that what you want?

[TRANSPONDER]

POI,

There is some points of misunderstanding on your part. We are to ask God for wisdom, or instructions, but not merely to get irrelevant information. We are supposed to learn to do right, love God and man.

Now the question you asked is for information which will not have any impact on your position, will it? And since you don’t believe there is a Being talking to me, of what value can what I say of the matter bring?

Lastly, I already know the answer and He knows I do. It’s useless to try to essentially pretend with Him, and dangerous to try. I know that from ordinary examination of the evidence of which I’ve done considerable.

Jesus said that if we do what he teaches, we will know the truth. Isn’t that what you want?

It isn't about irrelevant detail but basics; doctrine, eternal truths, what the Bible means or even says, basics. Doesn't Jesusgod know the damage done and being done by doctrinal and sectarian quarrels and infighting? Surely the fact that Believers don't agree shows Jesus is NOT communicating with them.

Your first response was strawmanning the problem so as to dismiss it. The second was smokescreening the problem so as to dismiss it, and the third was underlining and red -flagging the problem as well as could be hoped. Jesus is telling you the answer and you are right and anyone else is misguided, ignorant, not in contact with Jesus and you are. Close? Cigar?

Examination of the evidence is not even a nice try. I know from long and bitter experience that it means fiddling and selecting the 'evidence' to fit to what Faith tells the believer in their own Rightness.

[POI]

We are to ask God for wisdom, or instructions, but not merely to get irrelevant information. We are supposed to learn to do right, love God and man.

Asking for Bible clarification is irrelevant? I don't think so. Many people walk away from this belief system merely because they no longer accept what the Bible claims, in comparison to their reality. Please note the topics, in which this topic was born:

(viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39327&start=550)
(viewtopic.php?t=41373)

If (the Bible is debunked by science), it's game over for many. I would imagine many have had an existential crisis of faith, asked God to give them wisdom (in accordance with James 1), to no avail. Only to then later take a bunch of college science courses to fulfill course requirements, misinterpret what the Bible says, asking God for wisdom/knowledge/correction, not getting any, and then falling away because too much evidence no longer comports with their reality.

Now the question you asked is for information which will not have any impact on your position, will it? And since you don’t believe there is a Being talking to me, of what value can what I say of the matter bring?

Do YOU believe a being is talking to you? Apparently so. You are given a rare chance to convert a skeptic here today. Have him tell you my age, race, favorite food, and favorite color and I will then have no choice but to believe you. I will then see, firsthand, the evidence of James 1 in action. If you decline, which will then not be in accordance with 1 Peter 3:15, then you are not abiding by the rules. It would only take you seconds, and you would turn this skeptic into a believer. Don't you think God wants believers? My standards are quite low. For all I know, you could merely be psychic. I guess this is where faith comes in, right?

Lastly, I already know the answer and He knows I do. It’s useless to try to essentially pretend with Him, and dangerous to try. I know that from ordinary examination of the evidence of which I’ve done considerable.

It is not dangerous. You have the unique opportunity to convert me, right here, and right now. Are you up for the very easy challenge? If not, why not?

********************

But getting back on topic, such scholarly debate among Christians should be over by now. It would alternatively not ever be over for unbelievers, because they do not have the same lifeline to ask --> (God).

[1213]

Shouldn't the Christian Infighting be Over?

It depends on that is the reason for infighting. By what the Bible tells, there are two kinds kinds of people, those who love truth and those who hate truth. Those who hate truth want to infiltrate the congregation and destroy it within. That explains why there is the infighting, there are two sides and the other wants to lead people astray from the truth.

But beware of the false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inside they are plundering wolves.
Matt. 7:15
For the mystery of lawlessness already is working, only he is holding back now, until it comes out of the midst. And then "the Lawless One" will be revealed, "whom" "the Lord" "will consume" "by the spirit of His mouth," and He will bring to nought by the brightness of His presence. Isa. 11:4 His coming is according to the working of Satan in all power and miracles and lying wonders, and in all deceit of unrighteousness in those being lost, because they did not receive the love of the truth in order for them to be saved. And because of this, God will send to them a working of error, for them to believe the lie, that all may be judged, those not believing the truth, but who have delighted in unrighteousness.
2 Thess. 2:7:12

[TRANSPONDER]

Shouldn't the Christian Infighting be Over?

It depends on that is the reason for infighting. By what the Bible tells, there are two kinds kinds of people, those who love truth and those who hate truth. Those who hate truth want to infiltrate the congregation and destroy it within. That explains why there is the infighting, there are two sides and the other wants to lead people astray from the truth.

But beware of the false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inside they are plundering wolves.
Matt. 7:15
For the mystery of lawlessness already is working, only he is holding back now, until it comes out of the midst. And then "the Lawless One" will be revealed, "whom" "the Lord" "will consume" "by the spirit of His mouth," and He will bring to nought by the brightness of His presence. Isa. 11:4 His coming is according to the working of Satan in all power and miracles and lying wonders, and in all deceit of unrighteousness in those being lost, because they did not receive the love of the truth in order for them to be saved. And because of this, God will send to them a working of error, for them to believe the lie, that all may be judged, those not believing the truth, but who have delighted in unrighteousness.
2 Thess. 2:7:12

Darn it, that's another valid post. I was going on the assumption that all the dissenters and differing denominations were sincere but differed in their ideas.That some are right (and presumably getting their input from The Lord and the others are wreckers, trying to mislead the Faithful is an aspect I hadn't considered. Of course that raises two problems, one is...how do we tell which is doing the wrecking? I know...in accordance with the Bible, but I argue that anyone who goes to church rather than going out and picking berries on the Sabbath is not doing God's will. The other problem is of course, the problem of evil. Given as an arguing point anyway, that God does not interfere with Free Will, why would he just allow people to pervert his word and mislead His faithful?

cue:"God knows what He is doing". Well it doesn't look like it to me. What it looks like is just what it would look like if there wasn't a god there at all.

.......

30 Guests! That's amazing, plust 2 Bots. Like, subscribe and comment online I do invite you, valued browzers

[Mae von H]

It isn't about irrelevant detail but basics; doctrine, eternal truths, what the Bible means or even says, basics.

The description of the flood is not basic. Do you know what we say are the basics?

Doesn't Jesusgod know the damage done and being done by doctrinal and sectarian quarrels and infighting?

Same as knows the damage done by Maixism, communism, atheism, and BLM. What do you expect Him to do?

Surely the fact that Believers don't agree shows Jesus is NOT communicating with them.

It’s clear THEY aren’t listening. Do not mix up failure to speak with failure to hear.

Your first response was strawmanning the problem so as to dismiss it.

Untrue

The second was smokescreening the problem so as to dismiss it, and the third was underlining and red -flagging the problem as well as could be hoped.

You’ve not demonstrated any of these claims.

Jesus is telling you the answer and you are right and anyone else is misguided, ignorant, not in contact with Jesus and you are. Close? Cigar?

Totally off. I said I know the answer by examining the evidence.

Examination of the evidence is not even a nice try.

You don’t even claim that the evidence has any impact.

I know from long and bitter experience that it means fiddling and selecting the 'evidence' to fit to what Faith tells the believer in their own Rightness.

Ah, then there’s no reason to present any to
you.

[Mae von H]

We are to ask God for wisdom, or instructions, but not merely to get irrelevant information. We are supposed to learn to do right, love God and man.

Asking for Bible clarification is irrelevant? I don't think so. Many people walk away from this belief system merely because they no longer accept what the Bible claims, in comparison to their reality. Please note the topics, in which this topic was born:

(viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39327&start=550)
(viewtopic.php?t=41373)

There is no promise for knowing the truth by merely asking. I’ve know some who walked away from the faith and intellectual reasons were NEVER the reason although it sounded better than the truth.

If (the Bible is debunked by science), it's game over for many. I would imagine many have had an existential crisis of faith, asked God to give them wisdom (in accordance with James 1), to no avail. Only to then later take a bunch of college science courses to fulfill course requirements, misinterpret what the Bible says, asking God for wisdom/knowledge/correction, not getting any, and then falling away because too much evidence no longer comports with their reality.

There are not a few scientists who became believers in the claims of Christ after researching real science after the undergraduate courses. I’ve read their accounts. Real science led them to God.

Now the question you asked is for information which will not have any impact on your position, will it? And since you don’t believe there is a Being talking to me, of what value can what I say of the matter bring?

Do YOU believe a being is talking to you? Apparently so. You are given a rare chance to convert a skeptic here today. Have him tell you my age, race, favorite food, and favorite color and I will then have no choice but to believe you. I will then see, firsthand, the evidence of James 1 in action. If you decline, which will then not be in accordance with 1 Peter 3:15, then you are not abiding by the rules. It would only take you seconds, and you would turn this skeptic into a believer. Don't you think God wants believers? My standards are quite low. For all I know, you could merely be psychic. I guess this is where faith comes in, right?

The Enemy posed a similar “test” and Jesus responded that we are not to test the Lord that way. Besides, if I were 100% accurate, you’d never surrender your life to Himbased on that flimsy test.

Lastly, I already know the answer and He knows I do. It’s useless to try to essentially pretend with Him, and dangerous to try. I know that from ordinary examination of the evidence of which I’ve done considerable.

It is not dangerous. You have the unique opportunity to convert me, right here, and right now. Are you up for the very easy challenge? If not, why not?

********************

I know Him and you don’t do you don’t understand what it is to try to deceive the Almighty. Besides you’d never make the major surrender of you life in that flimsy event.

But getting back on topic, such scholarly debate among Christians should be over by now. It would alternatively not ever be over for unbelievers, because they do not have the same lifeline to ask --> (God).

Sigh! Believers don’t ask God what to believe. Why can’t you remember this?

[TRANSPONDER]

It isn't about irrelevant detail but basics; doctrine, eternal truths, what the Bible means or even says, basics.

The description of the flood is not basic. Do you know what we say are the basics?

Doesn't Jesusgod know the damage done and being done by doctrinal and sectarian quarrels and infighting?

Same as knows the damage done by Maixism, communism, atheism, and BLM. What do you expect Him to do?

Surely the fact that Believers don't agree shows Jesus is NOT communicating with them.

It’s clear THEY aren’t listening. Do not mix up failure to speak with failure to hear.

Your first response was strawmanning the problem so as to dismiss it.

Untrue

The second was smokescreening the problem so as to dismiss it, and the third was underlining and red -flagging the problem as well as could be hoped.

You’ve not demonstrated any of these claims.

Jesus is telling you the answer and you are right and anyone else is misguided, ignorant, not in contact with Jesus and you are. Close? Cigar?

Totally off. I said I know the answer by examining the evidence.

Examination of the evidence is not even a nice try.

You don’t even claim that the evidence has any impact.

I know from long and bitter experience that it means fiddling and selecting the 'evidence' to fit to what Faith tells the believer in their own Rightness.

Ah, then there’s no reason to present any to
you.

I know what the basic are - the claims of the Bible and whether they are true as regards science,logic and internal consistency. Denial is irrelevant.
Comparing the damage done by Christianity with that done by Communism does your cas no favors at all. I wouldlike to hear what damage atheism has caused. I notice you didn't point to the damage cause by Naziism. Wasn't that a problem too? Or by slavery, which is still endorsed by the Bible.

You are not the only one to imply that doctrinal dispute is explained by only One group hearing the truth and the rest being mistaken (if not deliberately trying to mislead the faithful). But it is opinion that one group have it right and all the others wrong. They could ALL have it wrong. In fact you can guarantee it because the Bible itself is wrong.

Maybe strawman wasn't the right term. Anyway "misinterpret what the Bible says, asking God for wisdom/knowledge/correction, not getting any" is biased because you claim they misinterpret. Maybe those who disagree with them are misinterpreting. In my experience Bible apologist not only misinterpret but deny the Bible says what it actually says. If then they ask for clarification and get nothing...that's game over and they can hardly be blamed for not getting an answer - which seems to be general as Bible apologists come up with such bad apologetics, they can hardly come from a god.

For the 2nd point I tried looking back and I don't know which post it was. Anyway, the red flag has been demonstrated even before you went on a rant about leftist politics, with talking about misinterpreting with red -flags someone who thinks Their interpretation is the right one. Red flags I have seen many times before. You are off because many theist apologists claim to 'examine the evidence' and it turns out to be fiddling and misrepresenting or even denying the evidence to suit their beliefs. So far I have seen an irrelevant attempt to excuse the damage done by Christianity (and other religions) by pointing to the damage done by political rather that religious dogmas. Doesn't get religion off the hook - they can all be dangerous dogmas, fingers itching to make their point by violence, like many a Maga supporter, hey? And you yourself have demonstrated the problem of pretence of one privileged bunch, touched by God, who can understand the bible and all the others don't. Me, you don't need, except to highlight the problems in your position and arguments.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus said there would be those that accept him as their LORD with whom he actually disagrees, there is no reason to believe such people would not also disagree with each other.

MATTHEW 7:22, 23

Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord,+ did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works* in your name?’+ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew* you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’+

To read more please go to other posts related to...

BABYLON THE GREAT , THE GREAT APOSTACY and ... THE ANTICHRIST/ MAN OF LAWLESSNESS

[William]

[Replying to POI in post #1]

For debate: If the above verse is true,

Isn't that a problem you are trying to address? Should we take the verse literally or figuratively? Yes? No?