THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF "THE AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY"

[Eddie Ramos]

It's interesting that this is another widely held doctrine by Christians, yet no one has ever put forth an actual age from the scriptures where children are not accountable for their sins. The fact is that when God looks at a human being, he looks at their heart and sees either righteousness or unrighteousness. If righteousness, then that means that Christ's atoning work has been applied to your life. At which point he has given that person a new and perfect heart that is free from sin, and has raised their dead soul to eternal life. If God sees unrighteousness in their heart, then it means that Christ's atoning work has not (or not yet) been applied to that individual and that individual is still in his or her sins. This applies from the moment of conception.

Psalm 51:5 (KJV 1900)
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity;
And in sin did my mother conceive me.

Can something conceived in sin be pure and clean in the eyes of God? The Bible says, no.

Job 14:4 (KJV 1900)
Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one.

So, how does God view a child conceived and still unsaved? The same way he views a grown up who is still unsaved, as wicked.

Psalm 58:3 (KJV 1900)
The wicked are estranged from the womb:
They go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Most will say, "babies can't speak, so this can't be referring to babies". Yet this is parabolic language (as is the whole Bible) which is speaking of the spiritual condition (as viewed by God) of mankind who was yet in his sins.

When the Bible as a whole is taken into acount, it absolutely contradicts and therefore rejects such doctrine of any age of accountability. But why then was it invented? Because it was build upon another false doctrine, the free will doctrine which states that a person must make an informed choice if he is going to accept Christ. And since babies can't do that, they had to find a way to make them exempt. But this goes to show what happpens when someone tries to build upon a crooked foundation, everything else they build on that foundation will also be crooked.

My question for anyone who hold to this doctrine is, can you show me how the scriptures you use to support such doctrine agree witht he above Bible verses provided? Because if we isolate passages from the Bible as a whole, then we can make them say anything we want.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #108]

The word "torment" is a word in Greek ---basanizo---and is used in the Scriptures a number of times. One example is the sailing of a boat in bad weather....it is a difficult job. We might say that the boat is being prevented from sailing on its chosen course. (Matt.14:24) A word associated with that is basanistes (Matt.18:34) and is translated as jailers in some translations and "tormentors" in others.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (1960, Vol. V, p.2999) said this:

"Probably THE IMPRISONMENT ITSELF WAS REGARDED AS 'TORMENT' and the tormentors need mean nothing but 'jailers.'"

So we have Satan and the demons being "jailed" in a sense, by being put into the symbolic lake of fire. They are thus unable to do anything.

Well, according to the scriptures as inspired by God, they are able to feel tormented.

So the demons will be cut off from their life-course and will be dead,

Once again, they are not "dead" according to the God inspired scriptures:

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

If they know torment, they do know some thing. So they are not dead.

Not even scream in pain in a lake of fire.

That's comical. Pain exists in the physical world, not the spiritual.

"Dead" means actual death, not being alive somewhere in pain.

But you claimed above that being alive forever in torment was the same as death.

No, you're using smoke and mirrors here. I said that the demons are DEAD, NOT alive forever. You are not understanding what I wrote. "Dead" means DEAD---no life at all. Gone, obliterated, annihilated. You say that "dead" does not mean dead.

[myth-one.com]

I said that the demons are DEAD, NOT alive forever.

Yes, it was God who said the devil will be in the lake of fire and tormented day and night for ever and ever. You said that is not true.

You are not understanding what I wrote. "Dead" means DEAD---no life at all. Gone, obliterated, annihilated.

Correct! But that does not describe the devil's situation. He will be alive in the lake of fire being tormented forever.

You say that "dead" does not mean dead.

I've never said that.

Dead means Dead.

A being that is being tormented day and night forever, is definitely not dead. He wishes that he could die, but he was created immortal, and cannot escape life.

[myth-one.com]

This is correct and the only way that the scripture in Revelation 20:10 is in harmony with the rest of the Bible. Otherwise, Satan is in the book of life without being righteous. This would also mean that eternal life isn't a reward but a punishment. A righteous Satan just cannot be. Thus we have to look elsewhere in the Bible for this word torment and what it means. We find something like the word torment at Matthew 18:34 as OWH has pointed out.

The Book of life contains the names of Christians who will gain everlasting spiritual life when born again of the Spirit as a spirit at or after the Second Coming.

No existing spiritual beings are listed in the Book of Life, as they have already been born of the Spirit (God) as a spiritual bodied being. And that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The devil is already a spiritual being with everlasting life.

The Book of life is not a book of the righteous (meaning free of sin) anymore. It is a list of those humans who believeth in Jesus as their Savior.

[onewithhim]

I said that the demons are DEAD, NOT alive forever.

Yes, it was God who said the devil will be in the lake of fire and tormented day and night for ever and ever. You said that is not true.

You are not understanding what I wrote. "Dead" means DEAD---no life at all. Gone, obliterated, annihilated.

Correct! But that does not describe the devil's situation. He will be alive in the lake of fire being tormented forever.

You say that "dead" does not mean dead.

I've never said that.

Dead means Dead.

A being that is being tormented day and night forever, is definitely not dead. He wishes that he could die, but he was created immortal, and cannot escape life.

That spirit being is NOT immortal, and that has been explained to you many times. You say that dead means dead, but then you say that a dead being is still alive.
The Devil is the most sinful Being that ever existed. The wages of sin is DEATH. (Romans 6:23) Satan will be dead, not alive to suffer in flames.

[myth-one.com]

The Devil is the most sinful Being that ever existed.

Probably.

The wages of sin is DEATH. (Romans 6:23) Satan will be dead, not alive to suffer in flames.

According to the scriptures, he will be tormented for ever and ever.

Do you believe that Christians will be resurrected to everlasting life?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)


After Christians are resurrected to everlasting life, will they be cast into the lake of fire and die when they sin, because the wages of sin is death?

[onewithhim]

The Devil is the most sinful Being that ever existed.

Probably.

The wages of sin is DEATH. (Romans 6:23) Satan will be dead, not alive to suffer in flames.

According to the scriptures, he will be tormented for ever and ever.

Do you believe that Christians will be resurrected to everlasting life?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)


After Christians are resurrected to everlasting life, will they be cast into the lake of fire and die when they sin, because the wages of sin is death?

No, that's why Jesus came. Because of his sacrifice we can now have the hope of everlasting life. We have to believe in him and do works befitting a life of following Christ. Satan believes, but he is not going to live forever. He doesn't do the commands of God (John 15:14; Matthew 7:21,24).

[myth-one.com]

The Devil is the most sinful Being that ever existed.

Probably.

The wages of sin is DEATH. (Romans 6:23) Satan will be dead, not alive to suffer in flames.

According to the scriptures, he will be tormented for ever and ever.

Do you believe that Christians will be resurrected to everlasting life?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)


After Christians are resurrected to everlasting life, will they be cast into the lake of fire and die when they sin, because the wages of sin is death?

No, that's why Jesus came. Because of his sacrifice we can now have the hope of everlasting life. We have to believe in him and do works befitting a life of following Christ. Satan believes, but he is not going to live forever. He doesn't do the commands of God (John 15:14; Matthew 7:21,24).

And with our everlasting life would we be killed if we were cast into the lake of fire?

[2timothy316]

The Devil is the most sinful Being that ever existed.

Probably.

The wages of sin is DEATH. (Romans 6:23) Satan will be dead, not alive to suffer in flames.

According to the scriptures, he will be tormented for ever and ever.

Do you believe that Christians will be resurrected to everlasting life?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)


After Christians are resurrected to everlasting life, will they be cast into the lake of fire and die when they sin, because the wages of sin is death?

No, that's why Jesus came. Because of his sacrifice we can now have the hope of everlasting life. We have to believe in him and do works befitting a life of following Christ. Satan believes, but he is not going to live forever. He doesn't do the commands of God (John 15:14; Matthew 7:21,24).

We have to use some critical thinking.

Is Satan a sinner? Yes.
What is the wages of sin? Death.
Jesus Christ came to save mankind or Satan from sin and death? Mankind.

Satan doesn't have a savior from sin and death. There is zero reason to think that just because he is a spirit he has immortality. This is a traditional false teaching by Christendom. There is nothing in the scriptures that say spirits are made with immortality, the Bible make no mention they have a savior either and that they would be exempt from the 2nd death of the lake of fire. The Devil will have the same experience the false prophet and the wild beast will have. Experiencing nothing at all, because they're dead. Kept in that state forever.

[myth-one.com]

There is nothing in the scriptures that say spirits are made with immortality,

The first of several verses indicating that spirits are immortal is found in the first few pages of the Bible:

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. (Genesis 3:22-23)

Adam and Eve were not evicted from the Garden of Eden because they sinned. They were evicted to separate them from the Tree of Life, lest they ate from it and gained everlasting life like God and those He was speaking to -- including Satan.

. . . the Bible make no mention they have a savior either . . .

Since spirits live forever, they do not need anyone to save them from the wages of sin; as death does not apply to the immortal, by definition of immortal.

. . . and that they would be exempt from the 2nd death or the lake of fire.

They're immune from all death, as they live forever! And fire doesn't harm them at all.

[onewithhim]

The Devil is the most sinful Being that ever existed.

Probably.

The wages of sin is DEATH. (Romans 6:23) Satan will be dead, not alive to suffer in flames.

According to the scriptures, he will be tormented for ever and ever.

Do you believe that Christians will be resurrected to everlasting life?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)


After Christians are resurrected to everlasting life, will they be cast into the lake of fire and die when they sin, because the wages of sin is death?

No, that's why Jesus came. Because of his sacrifice we can now have the hope of everlasting life. We have to believe in him and do works befitting a life of following Christ. Satan believes, but he is not going to live forever. He doesn't do the commands of God (John 15:14; Matthew 7:21,24).

And with our everlasting life would we be killed if we were cast into the lake of fire?

The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone who is "cast" there will never have life again. They/it will be gone forever. "Hell" and death are cast into the lake of fire. (This is symbolic, I think you would agree. How can anyone cast "hell" or death into anything? The same for Satan. The lake of fire is symbolic of annihilation.) They will be no more....non-existent. Just like the devil and his demons. The everlasting life for Christians is bestowed upon them at the end of the Millennial Reign. That is why it is said that they "come to life" after the thousand years.