Leaving church

[Wootah]

Church means gathering or group. So it doesn't have to be answered by just religious people.

This is how to test your own church. Not by leaving and seeing how they react but when people do leave or want to leave how does the church react?

How do you react when people leave you? Are you a cult of one that hates when people leave you or won't let them? Any experiences of trying to leave a cult to share

[JehovahsWitness]

Well I think that if you can't leave a group, whether a church or some friends then you were in a cult. ...

Fair enough, but you didn't answer the question.

Do you hate it that people that do not view the biblical position [or any alternative position] as extreme? Would you feel the need to try and persuade them to see religion as you do ?

I've read multiple posts on this thread alone ranting about how people should not hold this or that view, should beware if joining this or that group because they are "wrong" or "damaging" ... some feel one must "make a choice" and one cannot lead a healthy, happy life and be in a religion. Would you feel compelled to express your particular brand of misgivings to friends or family or anyone, you felt was in in error?

Or would you keep your views to yourself and your mouth shut?

For example on an Internet forum, would you keep your personal opinion to yourself or dissuade someone from making a choice you felt would be detrimental to them?

In short your question boils down to : How would you react if you saw someone doing that which you firmly believed was wrong?

[TRANSPONDER]

Well, Wootah (unlike me) does not think one is better off outside a religion, unless you think being outside the True Religion (Yours) is not being in a religion at all. But you missed you own point. Since you protest the golden perversion of the gospels, that it is good to pester others and try to convert them for their own good, and one feels the need to tell them they need to change, that is just what people in other religions or none do. It's what I do, and apparently what you do.

The principle of proffering ideas in the marketplace is not the problem, it is whether people are right to use their judgement or they should stay in the Church they are in and swallow their misgiving and 'Rely not upon human understandings'? Like I say, I'm glad I don't have to worry about that.

[The Nice Centurion]

If someone wanted to jump out of a lifeboat what would be the reasonable balanced logical reaction?

• While that would be their choice, a reasonable reaction from the others would be to do all they could to dissuade them since they are gathered together on the boat to stay alive?

• If they cannot, then they would sadly met the person jump overboard and make a swim for it.

• If the fellow passengers observed the person subsequently drown or be eaten by sharks, they no doubt would be convinced of the folly of such a decision and know they must do all they can to stay together in the boat.

FOR TRUE CHRISTIANS THE TRUE RELIGION ISNT A SOCIAL CLUB IT IS THE MEANS BY WHICH GOD IS SAVING PEOPLE FROM IMMENENT DESTRUCTION

Interesting. But it depends on the situation on the lifeboat

And it depends on the reason that the person has for jumping off it

In 1838 in USA Mister Edgar Allan Poe published a story. Four men were lost on a lifeboat amidst the wide ocean. Crazy of hunger and thirst the second and third man attacked and ate alive the fourth while the first man resisted from participating.

Name of poor fellow who filled the stomach of his comrades was RICHARD PARKER.


In 1884 in REALITY four men were lost on a lifeboat amidst the wide ocean. Crazy of hunger and thirst the second and third man attacked and ate alive the fourth while the first man resisted from participating.

Name of poor fellow who filled the stomach of his comrades was RICHARD PARKER.


In the pages of Edgar Rice Burroughs third Tarzan book six people find themself lost on a lifeboat amidst the wide ocean.
Jane Foster, William John Clayton, Monsieur Thuran (who is secretly Tarzans archenemy Boris Rokoff of course) and three nameless sailors suffering heavy from the Curse of Roddenberry.

Crazy of hunger and thirst and with two sailors already gone they begin to play a lucky game for deciding which of them gets eaten alive by the others.
Ii hits poor cursed third sailor of course, but he has the gall to jump off the liveboat to avoid being eaten alive.

If the others had managed to hold him off, it hardly would have been for completely compassionate reasons

TO LEAVE THE CHRISTIANS ALONE IN THEIR RELIGIOUS SOCIAL CLUB IS BETTER THAN TO STAY AND CONTINUE BEING EATEN ALIVE BY COGNITIVE DISSONANCE

[2timothy316]

Interesting. But it depends on the situation on the lifeboat

When the Titanic first struck the iceberg, there were many that thought the ship wouldn't sink because they thought of it being so advanced. While it is true that there are religions that claim to be lifeboats but looking that occupants it doesn't seem they are lifeboats. It would be a huge mistake to stay on the Titanic thinking it will never actually sink.

[TRANSPONDER]

Interesting. But it depends on the situation on the lifeboat

When the Titanic first struck the iceberg, there were many that thought the ship wouldn't sink because they thought of it being so advanced. While it is true that there are religions that claim to be lifeboats but looking that occupants it doesn't seem they are lifeboats. It would be a huge mistake to stay on the Titanic thinking it will never actually sink.

I've been sitting looking at that post for quite a while, partly because I'm bone idle, but mostly because it does raise an argument that is difficult to sort out. Either in analogy or in actuality. Should people have trusted the Titanic? It does look like misplaced trust in something supposed to be new and better. But it does seem that advanced methods are better and if not safer, no more worse, whether travel by ship, aircraft, road or rail or systems where one considers whether to jump ship. Whether to shift banks (I did) political parties or religions. How much do we trust the experts?I may be more prone to conspiracy theory than I'd like to admit, though rational skepticism saves me. But just blind trust when there are real problems is just blind faith.

I think that's it - be prepared to question but have good reasons, not just preferences propped up with fiddled data. And we just have to roll with mishaps. Who expected the Max to have a problem? Who believed there was a problem in the business? These things do happen, and Blind Faith in ignoring problems in the Churches or religions or indeed politics is not a person boarding a liner that one trusts is ok, but boarding a deep dive sub that a bit of research would say was not ok.

[2ndpillar2]

Church means gathering or group. So it doesn't have to be answered by just religious people.

This is how to test your own church. Not by leaving and seeing how they react but when people do leave or want to leave how does the church react?

How do you react when people leave you? Are you a cult of one that hates when people leave you or won't let them? Any experiences of trying to leave a cult to share

"Leaving the church", such as "coming out of her", the daughters of Babylon (Rev 18:4) is a proscriptive decree by Yeshua in order to escape the "plagues" of "her). The other option is to vote for Obama and try and cash in on Obama Care. I don't know, but I don't think anyone is escaping the "plagues" by having taken that route.

[TRANSPONDER]

Church means gathering or group. So it doesn't have to be answered by just religious people.

This is how to test your own church. Not by leaving and seeing how they react but when people do leave or want to leave how does the church react?

How do you react when people leave you? Are you a cult of one that hates when people leave you or won't let them? Any experiences of trying to leave a cult to share

"Leaving the church", such as "coming out of her", the daughters of Babylon (Rev 18:4) is a proscriptive decree by Yeshua in order to escape the "plagues" of "her). The other option is to vote for Obama and try and cash in on Obama Care. I don't know, but I don't think anyone is escaping the "plagues" by having taken that route.

I ought to thank you as I could hardly have pointed up better the unhealthy and poisonous link between Christian fundamentalism and Rightwing politics. Our cousins in America have to wake up, smell the coffee and decide whether these people (political or religious) get power over them.

[2ndpillar2]

Church means gathering or group. So it doesn't have to be answered by just religious people.

This is how to test your own church. Not by leaving and seeing how they react but when people do leave or want to leave how does the church react?

How do you react when people leave you? Are you a cult of one that hates when people leave you or won't let them? Any experiences of trying to leave a cult to share

"Leaving the church", such as "coming out of her", the daughters of Babylon (Rev 18:4) is a proscriptive decree by Yeshua in order to escape the "plagues" of "her). The other option is to vote for Obama and try and cash in on Obama Care. I don't know, but I don't think anyone is escaping the "plagues" by having taken that route.

I ought to thank you as I could hardly have pointed up better the unhealthy and poisonous link between Christian fundamentalism and Rightwing politics. Our cousins in America have to wake up, smell the coffee and decide whether these people (political or religious) get power over them.

The "left" socialist Marxist Progressives are the party of Satan, in the form of worshipping the "beast" (dictator/king Obama) whose authority comes from the "dragon" (Rev 13:4). The first tenant of Marxism is that there is no god. Their "god" is in the form of a man (Marx & Obama and his son Biden). The "right" voting "Christians", are just the "many" sheep being led to the slaughter (Mt 7:13-15) by "false prophets", such as Paul. They can choose to follow Yeshua, and "come out of her" (Rev 18:4) or continue on their merry way into the great tribulation (Mt 24) (Har-Magedon) (Rev 16), which is just around the bend. They think they will be "raptured" into heaven, but Yeshua said the ones being "gathered up" "first" are the "tares"/"wicked" (Mt 13:30), which are to be tossed into the fire (Har-Magedon). What is up they call down, and what is down is called up. Good is called evil, and evil is called good. The "good" "wheat" will be gathered into the "barn", such as they will be relocated to the land "given to Jacob" (Ezekiel 37).

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #38]

Again, thank you for pointing up the wretched, toxic and dangerous link of Rightwing extremist and incompetent (even in dirty tricks) politicking with Religious fundamentalism. Maybe if 2024 is to be the year Woke got broke (as people are getting sick of it), it may also be the year Maga went down the tube and dragged Christian extremist fundamentalism down with it before it looks even more like fundamentalist Islam than it does.

Hope you like this post It'll give you something to mull over tonight.