Do we lose free will in Heaven?

[Metatron]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

[Wyvern]

Unless you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, repent of your sins, and believe that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead, what happens in heaven won't matter to you, you wont be there!
So, again, wrong question.

Biker

It absolutely is the right question. If heaven is the equivalent of a police state where you can't do anything the state doesn't want you to do makes it little better than a prison, possibly a comfortable prison but a prison all the same. An even worse option is that upon reaching heaven they lobotomize your soul so the idea never even enters into the equation. Either way if there is no free will in heaven would color many peoples decisions whether they even WANT to go there.

OK Wyvern, lets take a look at this. Let me see, do I want to go to hell, where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and torment and anguish and evil and scorching heat separation from God and so on OR do I want to go to heaven?
I'm going with...heaven.

Biker

That is just the kind of choice you would not be allowed to make in heaven although if you don't value freedom I guess it's not much of a sacrifice. It seems the choices in heaven are the same as the choices of car color Henry Ford gave.

[Ghost_of_Amityville]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

Heaven is an allegory used to explain the satisfaction of all creaturely longing. Maybe with some definitions of heaven, you could find a contradiction between free will and heaven, but not in the definition that makes the most sense to me. Asking whether someone loses their free will in heaven is a question that doesn't compute with me, since the satisfaction of longing has nothing to do with the question of freedom.

[Metatron]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

Heaven is an allegory used to explain the satisfaction of all creaturely longing. Maybe with some definitions of heaven, you could find a contradiction between free will and heaven, but not in the definition that makes the most sense to me. Asking whether someone loses their free will in heaven is a question that doesn't compute with me, since the satisfaction of longing has nothing to do with the question of freedom.

If you think Heaven is an allegory then what happens to Christians when they die? What does satisfaction of longing mean tangibly speaking?

[Ghost_of_Amityville]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

Heaven is an allegory used to explain the satisfaction of all creaturely longing. Maybe with some definitions of heaven, you could find a contradiction between free will and heaven, but not in the definition that makes the most sense to me. Asking whether someone loses their free will in heaven is a question that doesn't compute with me, since the satisfaction of longing has nothing to do with the question of freedom.

If you think Heaven is an allegory then what happens to Christians when they die? What does satisfaction of longing mean tangibly speaking?

If there is an existence after death (which does make sense to me, although this "existence" would have to be an entirely different one than the existence someone experiences while they are alive), I suppose it means that they are fulfilled in a sense. That being, experiencing everything that they were supposed to experience from the very beginning. Like love, truth, or any positive you can think of. The idea of freedom or free will could be included, if it's a positive (which most people agree that it is), but since it's the fulfillment of all longing, it would not necessarily include the negatives brought about by freedom. In a sense, it would be fulfillment of longing brought about by the negatives brought about by freedom.

And don't necessarily include only Christians in this, but that's another discussion.

[Metatron]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

Heaven is an allegory used to explain the satisfaction of all creaturely longing. Maybe with some definitions of heaven, you could find a contradiction between free will and heaven, but not in the definition that makes the most sense to me. Asking whether someone loses their free will in heaven is a question that doesn't compute with me, since the satisfaction of longing has nothing to do with the question of freedom.

If you think Heaven is an allegory then what happens to Christians when they die? What does satisfaction of longing mean tangibly speaking?

If there is an existence after death (which does make sense to me, although this "existence" would have to be an entirely different one than the existence someone experiences while they are alive), I suppose it means that they are fulfilled in a sense. That being, experiencing everything that they were supposed to experience from the very beginning. Like love, truth, or any positive you can think of. The idea of freedom or free will could be included, if it's a positive (which most people agree that it is), but since it's the fulfillment of all longing, it would not necessarily include the negatives brought about by freedom. In a sense, it would be fulfillment of longing brought about by the negatives brought about by freedom.

And don't necessarily include only Christians in this, but that's another discussion.

Sounds like some sort of cosmic version of hedonism.

[katiej49]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

in heaven we will no longer be in the flesh. we will joyfully and freely worship Him.....

we will WILLINGLY worship Him forever....it will be a place of perfect peace and joy and we will have full knowledge of Him.......we wont want to sin.......we will be perfect and perfectly worship.....

Sure you will not want to sin, but then again I assume that you don't want to sin NOW. If free will exists, the option to sin is always there and given that all who go to Heaven have sinned in the past there's no real reason to think they will all stop when they get there. The only way to eliminate all sin is to eliminate free will.

well of course you dont know what we will be like in heaven......we will not be in the flesh...we will see God face to face.............a perfect place with perfect joy......what else could be said

[Metatron]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

in heaven we will no longer be in the flesh. we will joyfully and freely worship Him.....

we will WILLINGLY worship Him forever....it will be a place of perfect peace and joy and we will have full knowledge of Him.......we wont want to sin.......we will be perfect and perfectly worship.....

Sure you will not want to sin, but then again I assume that you don't want to sin NOW. If free will exists, the option to sin is always there and given that all who go to Heaven have sinned in the past there's no real reason to think they will all stop when they get there. The only way to eliminate all sin is to eliminate free will.

well of course you dont know what we will be like in heaven......we will not be in the flesh...we will see God face to face.............a perfect place with perfect joy......what else could be said

Theoretically, Satan and a third of the host of Heaven were in similar circumstances and look how that turned out!

[Ghost_of_Amityville]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

Heaven is an allegory used to explain the satisfaction of all creaturely longing. Maybe with some definitions of heaven, you could find a contradiction between free will and heaven, but not in the definition that makes the most sense to me. Asking whether someone loses their free will in heaven is a question that doesn't compute with me, since the satisfaction of longing has nothing to do with the question of freedom.

If you think Heaven is an allegory then what happens to Christians when they die? What does satisfaction of longing mean tangibly speaking?

If there is an existence after death (which does make sense to me, although this "existence" would have to be an entirely different one than the existence someone experiences while they are alive), I suppose it means that they are fulfilled in a sense. That being, experiencing everything that they were supposed to experience from the very beginning. Like love, truth, or any positive you can think of. The idea of freedom or free will could be included, if it's a positive (which most people agree that it is), but since it's the fulfillment of all longing, it would not necessarily include the negatives brought about by freedom. In a sense, it would be fulfillment of longing brought about by the negatives brought about by freedom.

And don't necessarily include only Christians in this, but that's another discussion.

Sounds like some sort of cosmic version of hedonism.

Sure, why not? That sounds about as appropriate a description as any other. Although ... pleasure (a.k.a. hedonism) isn't exactly the same thing as love, truth, peace, beatitude, etc.. But why not throw in pleasure since it too is something positive?

[Goat]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

we will WILLINGLY worship Him forever....it will be a place of perfect peace and joy and we will have full knowledge of Him.......we wont want to sin.......we will be perfect and perfectly worship.....

Since we have no alternative but being a puppet to 'willing' worship him, that is not free will.

[achilles12604]

Addressing only the OP -

I don't personally have any issues with loss of free will in heaven. Once a person has "made it" to heaven, I would think it would almost be a relief not to have the burden of free will and the responsibility that goes with it.

My personal belief is that Heaven would abide by a much simpler form of free will. Like the mystical Adam and Eve, heaven includes creatures in a state of innocent bliss, unaware of good or evil. Much like a dog who can not tell the difference, souls would lose that ability, and thus the concerns associated with it. This would allow for unrestrained joy and bliss for those worshiping their creator.

Just my opinion.