The better half of the joke

[Eloi]

... is that evolutionists not only say that some animal species come from previous ones, but they also say that each plant species comes from another previous one (or that they used to say BEFORE)... This, after, according to them, plants stopped living in the water to start living on land... kind of like when fish ceasing to be aquatic to become semi-terrestrial amphibians ... or humans stopped living in caves to start building houses

Did you know this part of the story? It is never ending.

Do you think that the millions of years that the planet has existed are enough for so many SUPERDUPERULTRASLOW transformations that these scientists talk about?

[LittleNipper]

[Replying to LittleNipper in post #64]

The land surface would had to have been made of salt mountains for the run off to turn fresh water oceans into what we have today. Also, can you explain how water could run off the land into the oceans when the entire planet was under water as described in the biblical account?

No it wouldn't. The Dead Sea became salty simply from the runoff into the Jordon River, the fact that there was no outlet, and the fact of the destruction of the cities of the plain by brimstone. All this contributed an ever increasing salt content.

What about the rest of the planet?

Also, can you explain how water could run off the land into the oceans when the entire planet was under water as described in the biblical account?

Genesis 8:1
But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the livestock that were with him in the ark. And God made a wind blow over the earth, and the waters subsided.

I would also say that the land masses began to rise, and or the areas that were to become oceans began to lower and the water was blown off the land and began to dry out.

[brunumb]

I would also say that the land masses began to rise, and or the areas that were to become oceans began to lower and the water was blown off the land and began to dry out.

How and why would land masses simply rise? How and why would the ocean floor lower? Can you not see that these are events that could not actually occur without some physical basis? Try to give a realistic scenario that support your claims.

[LittleNipper]

I would also say that the land masses began to rise, and or the areas that were to become oceans began to lower and the water was blown off the land and began to dry out.

How and why would land masses simply rise? How and why would the ocean floor lower? Can you not see that these are events that could not actually occur without some physical basis? Try to give a realistic scenario that support your claims.

Well, say I was to beat the crap out of you (not that I ever do such a thing now). Your skin would swell. You'd have splits, lumps bruising, blood, and bumps all over. So, now the earth was pummeled with meteors, comets, and asteroids. The surface would buckle and rupture creating volcanic events and any water rushing in would cause steam. It was catastrophic to say the least. The tectonic plates would crack and lift...

[brunumb]

I would also say that the land masses began to rise, and or the areas that were to become oceans began to lower and the water was blown off the land and began to dry out.

How and why would land masses simply rise? How and why would the ocean floor lower? Can you not see that these are events that could not actually occur without some physical basis? Try to give a realistic scenario that support your claims.

Well, say I was to beat the crap out of you (not that I ever do such a thing now). Your skin would swell. You'd have splits, lumps bruising, blood, and bumps all over. So, now the earth was pummeled with meteors, comets, and asteroids. The surface would buckle and rupture creating volcanic events and any water rushing in would cause steam. It was catastrophic to say the least. The tectonic plates would crack and lift...

The analogy makes no sense at all. The behaviour of flesh and blood bears no relation to that of the earth's surface. We are also talking about the biblical flood, not some inundation involving meteors, comets, and asteroids.

The earth's surface is totally covered with water to a depth where all land masses are submerged. There are no cavities below for the water to flow into, or it would already have done so. No land masses can sink for a similar reason. No land masses can simply rise up without cause. So, where did the water go, and how?

[Clownboat]

Slander does indeed seem to be the way evolutionists deal with Creation scientists. They become very nasty. They love to use the word "we" as though there is safety in numbers and everyone is on their side.

I see you are not happy to find out just how many species we have estimated to be on this planet. I wonder if you are upset because you now realize that you are a super evolutionist? Or do you have an explanation for all the species we see now and how we got from the ark to all the species we see today?

If you care to do some research on your own you will find that there are even now areas where fresh and salt water do not mix.

I'm willing! Now please provide these areas you refer to and then explain what they have to do with a violent global flood allowing both fresh and salt water fishes to survive in the same body of water.

[LittleNipper]

Slander does indeed seem to be the way evolutionists deal with Creation scientists. They become very nasty. They love to use the word "we" as though there is safety in numbers and everyone is on their side.

I see you are not happy to find out just how many species we have estimated to be on this planet. I wonder if you are upset because you now realize that you are a super evolutionist? Or do you have an explanation for all the species we see now and how we got from the ark to all the species we see today?

If you care to do some research on your own you will find that there are even now areas where fresh and salt water do not mix.

I'm willing! Now please provide these areas you refer to and then explain what they have to do with a violent global flood allowing both fresh and salt water fishes to survive in the same body of water.

I simply do not regard breeds as individual species. Genesis 7:2 stipulated the following to Noah: "Take with you seven pairs--male and female--of each animal I have approved for eating and for sacrifice, and take one pair of each of the others. And Genesis 6:20 says: “Of the birds after their kind, and of the animals after their kind, of every creeping thing of the ground after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive.

What I can tell you is that the various breeds of cats and dogs are mostly from the breeding efforts of humans over the last 300-400 years. The same is true of cows and horses, sheep and other livestock. But Dog Kind are still Dog Kind. Cat kind are still Cat Kind. Horse Kind is still Horse Kind, etc...

[LittleNipper]

Slander does indeed seem to be the way evolutionists deal with Creation scientists. They become very nasty. They love to use the word "we" as though there is safety in numbers and everyone is on their side.

I see you are not happy to find out just how many species we have estimated to be on this planet. I wonder if you are upset because you now realize that you are a super evolutionist? Or do you have an explanation for all the species we see now and how we got from the ark to all the species we see today?

If you care to do some research on your own you will find that there are even now areas where fresh and salt water do not mix.

I'm willing! Now please provide these areas you refer to and then explain what they have to do with a violent global flood allowing both fresh and salt water fishes to survive in the same body of water.

Well here is something for you to consider: https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/ ... sis-flood/

[brunumb]

Well here is something for you to consider: https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/ ... sis-flood/

Stuff like this is not even worth consideration:

However, in the biblical account of earth history we are told that the Flood was initiated by the breaking up of the “"fountains of the great deep"” (Genesis 7:11), which likely were huge outpourings of hot water and steam that burst from inside the earth, associated with cataclysmic volcanic eruptions.3 Such waters today are very salty, because of dissolved minerals in them. Furthermore, toward the end of the Flood there was massive erosion of the new continental land surfaces as the flood waters drained back into the new ocean basins, thereby carrying a lot more salt with them.

There were never any fountains of the deep. You can not go very deep before water boils and the pressure generated would have forced any significant amount of water up into the crust long before the alleged flood incident. Check out geysers. The salt in the oceans is sodium chloride, not dissolved minerals from erosion of land masses. It was there from the time the oceans first formed. That said, you have still failed to explain how water covering the entire surface of the planet could drain anywhere. Not only did the biblical flood not happen, all the associated problems demonstrate that it could not have happened.

[Clownboat]

I simply do not regard breeds as individual species.

Great to hear, because a breed is not a species. All breeds of dogs are included in the one species Canis familiaris.
So you did not address the actual question. We have millions of species on this planet. How did we get the millions of species (not breeds), on this planet in such a short amount of time?

See just beetles to start with. There are around 350,000 species (not breeds) of beetles. If Noah just had 2 beetles on the ark, imagine the super evolution that has taken place over the last thousands of years to get us from 1 species to 350,000. That's just beetles!

Genesis 7:2 stipulated the following to Noah: "Take with you seven pairs--male and female--of each animal I have approved for eating and for sacrifice, and take one pair of each of the others. And Genesis 6:20 says: “Of the birds after their kind, and of the animals after their kind, of every creeping thing of the ground after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive.

Um, we know the story....

What I can tell you is that the various breeds of cats and dogs are mostly from the breeding efforts of humans over the last 300-400 years.

Again, you are confusing breeds and species. Yes, we have many breeds of dogs in the 1 species Canis familiaris.
How did we get the millions of species we see on this planet now and also in the fossil record? Again species, not breeds. Either Noah had millions of species on the ark, or super evolution took place after the flood. How can that be though, if you reject the mechanism that is evolution?

But Dog Kind are still Dog Kind. Cat kind are still Cat Kind. Horse Kind is still Horse Kind, etc...

I'll try my old creation speak...
We have millions of kinds of animals on this planet. Did Noah have millions of kinds on his ark, or do you believe in a form of super evolution that got us from the kinds he had to the millions of kinds we see now on the planet. Did he have 1 kind of beetle, or closer to 350,000 on the ark?

PS. Can you define what a 'kind' is?

Readers, the ignored question was: "Now please provide these areas you refer to (where fresh and salt water don't mix) and then explain what they have to do with a violent global flood allowing both fresh and salt water fishes and plants to survive in the same body of water."

I think we know why this question was dodged and the thread title comes to mind.

[LittleNipper]

I simply do not regard breeds as individual species.

Great to hear, because a breed is not a species. All breeds of dogs are included in the one species Canis familiaris.
So you did not address the actual question. We have millions of species on this planet. How did we get the millions of species (not breeds), on this planet in such a short amount of time?

See just beetles to start with. There are around 350,000 species (not breeds) of beetles. If Noah just had 2 beetles on the ark, imagine the super evolution that has taken place over the last thousands of years to get us from 1 species to 350,000. That's just beetles!

Genesis 7:2 stipulated the following to Noah: "Take with you seven pairs--male and female--of each animal I have approved for eating and for sacrifice, and take one pair of each of the others. And Genesis 6:20 says: “Of the birds after their kind, and of the animals after their kind, of every creeping thing of the ground after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive.

Um, we know the story....

What I can tell you is that the various breeds of cats and dogs are mostly from the breeding efforts of humans over the last 300-400 years.

Again, you are confusing breeds and species. Yes, we have many breeds of dogs in the 1 species Canis familiaris.
How did we get the millions of species we see on this planet now and also in the fossil record? Again species, not breeds. Either Noah had millions of species on the ark, or super evolution took place after the flood. How can that be though, if you reject the mechanism that is evolution?

But Dog Kind are still Dog Kind. Cat kind are still Cat Kind. Horse Kind is still Horse Kind, etc...

I'll try my old creation speak...
We have millions of kinds of animals on this planet. Did Noah have millions of kinds on his ark, or do you believe in a form of super evolution that got us from the kinds he had to the millions of kinds we see now on the planet. Did he have 1 kind of beetle, or closer to 350,000 on the ark?

PS. Can you define what a 'kind' is?

Readers, the ignored question was: "Now please provide these areas you refer to (where fresh and salt water don't mix) and then explain what they have to do with a violent global flood allowing both fresh and salt water fishes and plants to survive in the same body of water."

I think we know why this question was dodged and the thread title comes to mind.

I personally do not hold that most of what scientists regard as different species actually are. Any animal that can mate with another are of the same kind or species.