Do we lose free will in Heaven?

[Metatron]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

[wrekk]

I have posted this a couple of times here on the forum, and it was really not addressed, but it definitely applies to your topic:

Revelation 12:7

"And there was war in Heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon; and the Dragon fought and his angels,"

According to the Bible, there's obviously lots of "free will" in Heaven... or at least there was at one time.

Has God now changed the conditions of "free will" in Heaven? If so, how do we know? Where are the scriptures, that back this up?

[Metatron]

I found this on the web concerning this subject.

http://www.gotquestions.org/heaven-sin.html

Question: "Will it be possible for us to sin in Heaven?"

Answer: The Bible describes Heaven in great detail in Revelation chapters 21-22. Nowhere in those chapters is the possibility of sin mentioned. There will be no more death, sorrow, crying, or pain (Revelation 21:4). The sinful are not in Heaven, but the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). Nothing impure will ever enter Heaven (Revelation 21:27). Outside of Heaven are those who sin (Revelation 22:15). So, the answer is no, there will be no sin in Heaven.


What does that mean for us? If there is no possibility of sin, does that means we will no longer have a free will in Heaven? It seems that in Heaven, or ability to choose will be similar to that of the angels. The angels had a one-time choice to obey God or follow Satan. There is no possibility of further angels sinning and joining Satan in his rebellion. The holy angels are "elect angels" (1 Timothy 5:21). Similar, the elect in Heaven will be "sealed" in their decision to forsake sin and trust in Christ. We will not even have the choice to sin. At the same time, having been delivered from sin and evil, and viewing the wonderful glories of Heaven, we would not choose sin even if we had the choice.

The writers of this article state that there will be no sin in Heaven and claim that the elect's decision is "sealed", essentially saying that those in Heaven will not possess free will. They naturally go on to claim that Heaven is so wonderful that we wouldn't sin even if we could, but that kind of flies in the face of the whole Satanic rebellion thing. If Satan and allegedly a third of the heavenly host found a reason to sin, can't imagine mere humans wouldn't also.

Agree or disagree with this article?

[Metatron]

I have posted this a couple of times here on the forum, and it was really not addressed, but it definitely applies to your topic:

Revelation 12:7

"And there was war in Heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the Dragon; and the Dragon fought and his angels,"

According to the Bible, there's obviously lots of "free will" in Heaven... or at least there was at one time.

Has God now changed the conditions of "free will" in Heaven? If so, how do we know? Where are the scriptures, that back this up?

Yes, that passage hardly makes Heaven sound like a place of total peace and tranquility. Satan and allegedly a third of the host of heaven found conditions not to their liking enough to try to overthrow the Big Kahuna in the Sky. They certainly possessed free will at that moment.

The article I posted just before this post states that this rebellion is a one time act of free will now not possible to the remaining angels. The article uses the term "sealed" for explaining why these so called elect angels no longer possess free will and further suggests that this "sealed" status will apply to the elect humans in Heaven as well. I have no idea where in the Bible it states what they claim.

[twobitsmedia]

I found this on the web concerning this subject.

http://www.gotquestions.org/heaven-sin.html

Question: "Will it be possible for us to sin in Heaven?"

Answer: The Bible describes Heaven in great detail in Revelation chapters 21-22. Nowhere in those chapters is the possibility of sin mentioned. There will be no more death, sorrow, crying, or pain (Revelation 21:4). The sinful are not in Heaven, but the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). Nothing impure will ever enter Heaven (Revelation 21:27). Outside of Heaven are those who sin (Revelation 22:15). So, the answer is no, there will be no sin in Heaven.


What does that mean for us? If there is no possibility of sin, does that means we will no longer have a free will in Heaven? It seems that in Heaven, or ability to choose will be similar to that of the angels. The angels had a one-time choice to obey God or follow Satan. There is no possibility of further angels sinning and joining Satan in his rebellion. The holy angels are "elect angels" (1 Timothy 5:21). Similar, the elect in Heaven will be "sealed" in their decision to forsake sin and trust in Christ. We will not even have the choice to sin. At the same time, having been delivered from sin and evil, and viewing the wonderful glories of Heaven, we would not choose sin even if we had the choice.

The writers of this article state that there will be no sin in Heaven and claim that the elect's decision is "sealed", essentially saying that those in Heaven will not possess free will. They naturally go on to claim that Heaven is so wonderful that we wouldn't sin even if we could, but that kind of flies in the face of the whole Satanic rebellion thing. If Satan and allegedly a third of the heavenly host found a reason to sin, can't imagine mere humans wouldn't also.

Agree or disagree with this article?

I think they are making a "safe" assumption. It doesn't mention the possibility of sin in heaven. nether does it mention that it will not be there. "heaven is so wonderful that we wouldn't sin even if we could"? If that is so, than the issue of free will is a moot point. So get rid of one to enforce the other? The idea of heaven being so wonderful one wouldn't want to sin" can't stand on its own? I don't know. I could poke holes in the theory...

[Metatron]

I found this on the web concerning this subject.

http://www.gotquestions.org/heaven-sin.html

Question: "Will it be possible for us to sin in Heaven?"

Answer: The Bible describes Heaven in great detail in Revelation chapters 21-22. Nowhere in those chapters is the possibility of sin mentioned. There will be no more death, sorrow, crying, or pain (Revelation 21:4). The sinful are not in Heaven, but the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). Nothing impure will ever enter Heaven (Revelation 21:27). Outside of Heaven are those who sin (Revelation 22:15). So, the answer is no, there will be no sin in Heaven.


What does that mean for us? If there is no possibility of sin, does that means we will no longer have a free will in Heaven? It seems that in Heaven, or ability to choose will be similar to that of the angels. The angels had a one-time choice to obey God or follow Satan. There is no possibility of further angels sinning and joining Satan in his rebellion. The holy angels are "elect angels" (1 Timothy 5:21). Similar, the elect in Heaven will be "sealed" in their decision to forsake sin and trust in Christ. We will not even have the choice to sin. At the same time, having been delivered from sin and evil, and viewing the wonderful glories of Heaven, we would not choose sin even if we had the choice.

The writers of this article state that there will be no sin in Heaven and claim that the elect's decision is "sealed", essentially saying that those in Heaven will not possess free will. They naturally go on to claim that Heaven is so wonderful that we wouldn't sin even if we could, but that kind of flies in the face of the whole Satanic rebellion thing. If Satan and allegedly a third of the heavenly host found a reason to sin, can't imagine mere humans wouldn't also.

Agree or disagree with this article?

I think they are making a "safe" assumption. It doesn't mention the possibility of sin in heaven. nether does it mention that it will not be there. "heaven is so wonderful that we wouldn't sin even if we could"? If that is so, than the issue of free will is a moot point. So get rid of one to enforce the other? The idea of heaven being so wonderful one wouldn't want to sin" can't stand on its own? I don't know. I could poke holes in the theory...

Actually, the article does so that there is no sin in Heaven. I've bolded the section from the article above. Change anything about your perception of this article?

[twobitsmedia]

I found this on the web concerning this subject.

http://www.gotquestions.org/heaven-sin.html

Question: "Will it be possible for us to sin in Heaven?"

Answer: The Bible describes Heaven in great detail in Revelation chapters 21-22. Nowhere in those chapters is the possibility of sin mentioned. There will be no more death, sorrow, crying, or pain (Revelation 21:4). The sinful are not in Heaven, but the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). Nothing impure will ever enter Heaven (Revelation 21:27). Outside of Heaven are those who sin (Revelation 22:15). So, the answer is no, there will be no sin in Heaven.


What does that mean for us? If there is no possibility of sin, does that means we will no longer have a free will in Heaven? It seems that in Heaven, or ability to choose will be similar to that of the angels. The angels had a one-time choice to obey God or follow Satan. There is no possibility of further angels sinning and joining Satan in his rebellion. The holy angels are "elect angels" (1 Timothy 5:21). Similar, the elect in Heaven will be "sealed" in their decision to forsake sin and trust in Christ. We will not even have the choice to sin. At the same time, having been delivered from sin and evil, and viewing the wonderful glories of Heaven, we would not choose sin even if we had the choice.

The writers of this article state that there will be no sin in Heaven and claim that the elect's decision is "sealed", essentially saying that those in Heaven will not possess free will. They naturally go on to claim that Heaven is so wonderful that we wouldn't sin even if we could, but that kind of flies in the face of the whole Satanic rebellion thing. If Satan and allegedly a third of the heavenly host found a reason to sin, can't imagine mere humans wouldn't also.

Agree or disagree with this article?

I think they are making a "safe" assumption. It doesn't mention the possibility of sin in heaven. nether does it mention that it will not be there. "heaven is so wonderful that we wouldn't sin even if we could"? If that is so, than the issue of free will is a moot point. So get rid of one to enforce the other? The idea of heaven being so wonderful one wouldn't want to sin" can't stand on its own? I don't know. I could poke holes in the theory...

Actually, the article does so that there is no sin in Heaven. I've bolded the section from the article above. Change anything about your perception of this article?

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear, by "it doesn't mention the possibliity of sin in heaven" I meant the Bible. I think the website is making a safe assumption. And by safe, I mean, one that makes them feel safe.

[Metatron]

I found this on the web concerning this subject.

http://www.gotquestions.org/heaven-sin.html

Question: "Will it be possible for us to sin in Heaven?"

Answer: The Bible describes Heaven in great detail in Revelation chapters 21-22. Nowhere in those chapters is the possibility of sin mentioned. There will be no more death, sorrow, crying, or pain (Revelation 21:4). The sinful are not in Heaven, but the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). Nothing impure will ever enter Heaven (Revelation 21:27). Outside of Heaven are those who sin (Revelation 22:15). So, the answer is no, there will be no sin in Heaven.


What does that mean for us? If there is no possibility of sin, does that means we will no longer have a free will in Heaven? It seems that in Heaven, or ability to choose will be similar to that of the angels. The angels had a one-time choice to obey God or follow Satan. There is no possibility of further angels sinning and joining Satan in his rebellion. The holy angels are "elect angels" (1 Timothy 5:21). Similar, the elect in Heaven will be "sealed" in their decision to forsake sin and trust in Christ. We will not even have the choice to sin. At the same time, having been delivered from sin and evil, and viewing the wonderful glories of Heaven, we would not choose sin even if we had the choice.

The writers of this article state that there will be no sin in Heaven and claim that the elect's decision is "sealed", essentially saying that those in Heaven will not possess free will. They naturally go on to claim that Heaven is so wonderful that we wouldn't sin even if we could, but that kind of flies in the face of the whole Satanic rebellion thing. If Satan and allegedly a third of the heavenly host found a reason to sin, can't imagine mere humans wouldn't also.

Agree or disagree with this article?

I think they are making a "safe" assumption. It doesn't mention the possibility of sin in heaven. nether does it mention that it will not be there. "heaven is so wonderful that we wouldn't sin even if we could"? If that is so, than the issue of free will is a moot point. So get rid of one to enforce the other? The idea of heaven being so wonderful one wouldn't want to sin" can't stand on its own? I don't know. I could poke holes in the theory...

Actually, the article does so that there is no sin in Heaven. I've bolded the section from the article above. Change anything about your perception of this article?

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear, by "it doesn't mention the possibility of sin in heaven" I meant the Bible. I think the website is making a safe assumption. And by safe, I mean, one that makes them feel safe.

The main problem with their assumptions that I see is by claiming free will does not exist in Heaven they seem to imply that God does not want for us in the afterlife what he stressed so much during life, namely the ability to make moral choices. Some Christians on this forum have argued that the lack of free will would effectively make us willless robots only doing exactly what God wants us to. My question to those who feel this way is, if this was a bad thing during life, why is it a good thing in the afterlife?

[Biker]

In innumerable threads at this forum, I've been told ad nauseum that God allows all sorts of horrible things to happen in the world because of the importance he attaches to man's free will. It is argued that man must be allowed to choose evil otherwise he is effectively God's puppet with no will of his own.

However, it is also argued that sin does not exist in Heaven. Why is this? Is it because man no longer possesses free will in Heaven? Is free will no longer important to God? Would that not make the saved into willless automatons by the same logic Christians use when discussing the problem of evil?

Do we lose free will in Heaven?

Unless you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, repent of your sins, and believe that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead, what happens in heaven won't matter to you, you wont be there!
So, again, wrong question.

Biker

[Wyvern]

Unless you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, repent of your sins, and believe that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead, what happens in heaven won't matter to you, you wont be there!
So, again, wrong question.

Biker

It absolutely is the right question. If heaven is the equivalent of a police state where you can't do anything the state doesn't want you to do makes it little better than a prison, possibly a comfortable prison but a prison all the same. An even worse option is that upon reaching heaven they lobotomize your soul so the idea never even enters into the equation. Either way if there is no free will in heaven would color many peoples decisions whether they even WANT to go there.

[Biker]

Unless you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, repent of your sins, and believe that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead, what happens in heaven won't matter to you, you wont be there!
So, again, wrong question.

Biker

It absolutely is the right question. If heaven is the equivalent of a police state where you can't do anything the state doesn't want you to do makes it little better than a prison, possibly a comfortable prison but a prison all the same. An even worse option is that upon reaching heaven they lobotomize your soul so the idea never even enters into the equation. Either way if there is no free will in heaven would color many peoples decisions whether they even WANT to go there.

OK Wyvern, lets take a look at this. Let me see, do I want to go to hell, where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and torment and anguish and evil and scorching heat separation from God and so on OR do I want to go to heaven?
I'm going with...heaven.

Biker