The better half of the joke

[Eloi]

... is that evolutionists not only say that some animal species come from previous ones, but they also say that each plant species comes from another previous one (or that they used to say BEFORE)... This, after, according to them, plants stopped living in the water to start living on land... kind of like when fish ceasing to be aquatic to become semi-terrestrial amphibians ... or humans stopped living in caves to start building houses

Did you know this part of the story? It is never ending.

Do you think that the millions of years that the planet has existed are enough for so many SUPERDUPERULTRASLOW transformations that these scientists talk about?

[Clownboat]

We, JWs, preach in the streets, face to face, not like atheists who preach online.

Should JW's debate honorably? I must ask because you are refusing to honor this reasonable request with an answer:

(4th time making this request?)
"So evolution is not possible in your mind?
Since that is your stance, did Noah have 8.7 million species of animals on the ark, or do you in fact believe in a level of evolution that would make a biologist blush?

Eloi = Evolution is not possible! Except for this crazy fast evolution that happened after the flood.

Eloi, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either it can happen or it can't. You don't just get to have your preferred version of evolution while ignoring the one we have mountains of evidence for. Your reasoning is faulty and is rejected."

Wondering if Eloi is an honorable JW... The answer seems to be self evident.

[Tcg]

We, JWs, preach in the streets, face to face, not like atheists who preach online.

Stated by a poster who is preaching online. When did you become an atheist? In any case, welcome to the club!


Tcg

[LittleNipper]

I see no logical Christian reason to believe or accept that the entire Universe is anymore than maybe 10,000 years old, but more than likely 6000. The Millennial kingdom would in fact finish off the thousand year week day. Since GOD is eternal, why wouldn't the earth and the Universe look like it has been around forever. The seeming Billions of years might as well be forever, but I would assume that time only exists at all as a direct result of Creation.

[Clownboat]

I see no logical Christian reason to believe or accept that the entire Universe is anymore than maybe 10,000 years old, but more than likely 6000.

Why would anyone look at the earth and believe it is only 6k - 10k years old to begin with? What observations led you to such a notion?

The Millennial kingdom would in fact finish off the thousand year week day.

And.....?

Since GOD is eternal, why wouldn't the earth and the Universe look like it has been around forever.

Which of the gods do you argue is eternal?
Even if the gods are eternal, it doesn't follow that the earth and universe would therefore look like they have been around forever (which they don't appear to look).

The seeming Billions of years might as well be forever,

Consider forever and just how short a billion years is compared to forever.

but I would assume that time only exists at all as a direct result of Creation.

Why would you assume to know why time exists? Once you assume an answer to a question, it stops further investigation that just might lead to a correct answer. 'I don't know' are some of the most important words that humans can utter IMO.

It seems that many humans are uncomfortable with not know things...
Things like why are we here, what happens when we die and how did we get here. For such humans, man invented religious ideas to explain and provide answers. You can't possibly feel comfortable claiming that all religions are wrong, except for your preferred one can you?

[LittleNipper]

I see no logical Christian reason to believe or accept that the entire Universe is anymore than maybe 10,000 years old, but more than likely 6000.

Why would anyone look at the earth and believe it is only 6k - 10k years old to begin with? What observations led you to such a notion?

The Millennial kingdom would in fact finish off the thousand year week day.

And.....?

Since GOD is eternal, why wouldn't the earth and the Universe look like it has been around forever.

Which of the gods do you argue is eternal?
Even if the gods are eternal, it doesn't follow that the earth and universe would therefore look like they have been around forever (which they don't appear to look).

The seeming Billions of years might as well be forever,

Consider forever and just how short a billion years is compared to forever.

but I would assume that time only exists at all as a direct result of Creation.

Why would you assume to know why time exists? Once you assume an answer to a question, it stops further investigation that just might lead to a correct answer. 'I don't know' are some of the most important words that humans can utter IMO.

It seems that many humans are uncomfortable with not know things...
Things like why are we here, what happens when we die and how did we get here. For such humans, man invented religious ideas to explain and provide answers. You can't possibly feel comfortable claiming that all religions are wrong, except for your preferred one can you?

The GOD of the OLD & NEW TESTAMENT is eternal and I might ask you, "Why would you assume to know anything?" What makes you think man invented GOD? Sure man invented some versions of "gods" that made him comfortable or feel in control; however, the CREATOR GOD is out of the question. No one is in control of HIM. I personally do not believe the Universe is Billions of years old. It is old enough at 6000 years. GOD only used 6 days to create everything, but it would seem that evolutionists need the extra time for their "gods" to work...

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to LittleNipper in post #45]

The GOD of the OLD & NEW TESTAMENT is eternal and I might ask you, "Why would you assume to know anything?" What makes you think man invented GOD? Sure man invented some versions of "gods" that made him comfortable or feel in control; however, the CREATOR GOD is out of the question. No one is in control of HIM. I personally do not believe the Universe is Billions of years old. It is old enough at 6000 years. GOD only used 6 days to create everything, but it would seem that evolutionists need the extra time for their "gods" to work...

All you're doing is preaching a particular religious view (and as with all monotheists ... your particular god is the only valid god and all others are false gods, correct?).

The 6 day creation myth is just that ... a myth. There are many creation myths humans have come up with. Of course, your monotheism allows you to believe that only one of them is correct.

And why do nearly all anti-science people refer to everyone who doesn't follow the young earth or biblical narratives an "evolutionist"? The people who study Earth's processes and its age are geologists (and cosmologists who consider Earth as a planet in larger systems like solar systems and galaxies); the people who study human civilizations and societies are called anthropoligists, etc. Evolutionists are people who accept the theory of evolution as a valid scientific theory (which it is), or who study evolution. It is not "evolutionists" who determined that our solar system formed about 4.6 billion years ago. If you're going to complain about science, at least get the basic terminology correct.

[LittleNipper]

[Replying to LittleNipper in post #45]

The GOD of the OLD & NEW TESTAMENT is eternal and I might ask you, "Why would you assume to know anything?" What makes you think man invented GOD? Sure man invented some versions of "gods" that made him comfortable or feel in control; however, the CREATOR GOD is out of the question. No one is in control of HIM. I personally do not believe the Universe is Billions of years old. It is old enough at 6000 years. GOD only used 6 days to create everything, but it would seem that evolutionists need the extra time for their "gods" to work...

All you're doing is preaching a particular religious view (and as with all monotheists ... your particular god is the only valid god and all others are false gods, correct?).

The 6 day creation myth is just that ... a myth. There are many creation myths humans have come up with. Of course, your monotheism allows you to believe that only one of them is correct.

And why do nearly all anti-science people refer to everyone who doesn't follow the young earth or biblical narratives an "evolutionist"? The people who study Earth's processes and its age are geologists (and cosmologists who consider Earth as a planet in larger systems like solar systems and galaxies); the people who study human civilizations and societies are called anthropoligists, etc. Evolutionists are people who accept the theory of evolution as a valid scientific theory (which it is), or who study evolution. It is not "evolutionists" who determined that our solar system formed about 4.6 billion years ago. If you're going to complain about science, at least get the basic terminology correct.

Why do you preach that the 6 day creation is a myth? Clearly, there are many creation myths that man has developed; however, nothing as cohesive nor as straightforward as the account found in Genesis. It would seem even the Apollo astronauts felt so :
My Trinitarian belief only allows me to accept one GOD as a three person GODHEAD. It is through the evolutionists that a presumption is made as to how long it took for humans to evolve from other "primitive" lifeforms into how they exist today. And I would have to assume that you don't comprehend 6000 years as being nearly long enough for such a feat. I never complain about science; however, I do not accept all views or opinions as scientific unless they fulfill all 6 steps of scientific protocol --- Steps of the Scientific Method
1. Consider a Question 2. Do Background Research 3. Construct a testable and predictable Hypothesis 4. Test the Hypothesis repeatedly 5. Analyze the Data and Draw a Conclusion 6. Communicate the Results

[Clownboat]

And I would have to assume that you don't comprehend 6000 years as being nearly long enough for such a feat.

So a global flood happened some thousands of years ago and killed off everything, less what was on Noah's ark?
We have around 8.7 million species of animals on this planet. Did Noah have 8.7 million species of animals on the boat, or do you in fact believe in a form of evolution that is so accelerated as to make a biologist blush? How did we get from hundreds or thousands of species on the ark to the 8.7 million we have today without some made up form of hyper evolution?

It's dumb to complain about evolution and then ascribe to a hyper form of it and that is all you are doing here. Enjoy your reasoning, I find it nonsensical for the reasons listed.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to LittleNipper in post #47]

Why do you preach that the 6 day creation is a myth?

I'm not "preaching" that it is a myth ... it has been shown scientifically, and conclusively, that it cannot be true for too many reasons to consider it valid.

It is through the evolutionists that a presumption is made as to how long it took for humans to evolve from other "primitive" lifeforms into how they exist today. And I would have to assume that you don't comprehend 6000 years as being nearly long enough for such a feat.

It isn't nearly long enough for such a feat, which is one reason we know the Earth cannot be only 6000 years old. Geology, archeology, cosmology, and many other areas of science also show that 6000 years is nearly a factor of 1000 off of the correct number of 4.6 billion years.

I never complain about science; however, I do not accept all views or opinions as scientific unless they fulfill all 6 steps of scientific protocol --- Steps of the Scientific Method
1. Consider a Question 2. Do Background Research 3. Construct a testable and predictable Hypothesis 4. Test the Hypothesis repeatedly 5. Analyze the Data and Draw a Conclusion 6. Communicate the Results

This process is exactly how we know the Earth isn't just 6000 years old (steps 4 and 5 putting the nail in the coffin for a 6000 year old Earth). There are mountains of evidence to support the initial hypothesis that Earth was far older than mere thousands of years, or even millions of years. Science advanced enough over the centuries to dispell old notions of a young Earth, and very few people still believe such a nonsensical scenario (including most religious people).

[LittleNipper]

And I would have to assume that you don't comprehend 6000 years as being nearly long enough for such a feat.

So a global flood happened some thousands of years ago and killed off everything, less what was on Noah's ark?
We have around 8.7 million species of animals on this planet. Did Noah have 8.7 million species of animals on the boat, or do you in fact believe in a form of evolution that is so accelerated as to make a biologist blush? How did we get from hundreds or thousands of species on the ark to the 8.7 million we have today without some made up form of hyper evolution?

It's dumb to complain about evolution and then ascribe to a hyper form of it and that is all you are doing here. Enjoy your reasoning, I find it nonsensical for the reasons listed.

If you are indeed interested you may just wish to regard this presentation. I find them very thought provoking, and thinking is how people learn and grow in maturity. As for evolution of the various kinds after the Flood, my belief is that they were bred by herders/farmers/shepherds as they figured out what traits they desired most. It is interesting to note that many of the various breeds of dogs and cast are actually a product of breeding carried out beginning in the 18th century. The various colors, shapes and textures of tulips apparently began in the palaces of the Ottoman Empire around the 16th century. And within a few recent centuries we've developed hundreds (if not more) varieties.
Anyway here is the presentation regarding animals on Noah's Ark: