The court ruling on LGBT ENDS THIS DEBATE

[thomasdixon]

The court ruling on LGBT ENDS THIS DEBATE
I believe the courts should rule that a person’s gender is the gender stated on one’s birth certificate and the gender classification cannot be changed, period, nada, zip, never.
(:-

[boatsnguitars]

Clownboat did not refer to men in frocks, I did.

My apologies, Clownboat.

[Purple Knight]

One thing I consider particularly damning in this particular debate is that trans women can get their beards lasered off, and have it paid for by insurance. It's considered medically necessary in trans patients to affirm their gender. See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7176514/
The World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) affirmed in 2008 and 2016 that laser hair removal and electrolysis are medically necessary to treat gender dysphoria.

However, people assigned female at birth, who continue to identify as female, but grow beards, are not covered. No one imagined that having a beard could interfere with your gender identity as female, to the degree that other people ought to pay to have it removed, unless you happen to be trans.

https://infinitylaserspa.com/blogs/blog ... ir-removal
Laser hair removal is generally not covered by health insurance unless it is deemed medically necessary.
...
For example, some transgender and gender-minority patients may be eligible for coverage of permanent hair removal as part of treatment for gender dysphoria.

This is horribly damning and really affirms that the right to have a body that matches your inner self, even just so far as gender is concerned, is fabricated.

No one cares about a right not to be dehumanised or insulted when the person being degraded isn't special. No one cares if biological females who identify as women, suffer. No one cares if they are degraded, dehumanised, or misgendered. No one cares if they have beards they don't want. No one cares if they don't feel female enough because they have beards.

So if this is under the banner of equality, no. I'm not sorry, and no. If it's under the banner of equality, first check if cis people have the thing you're going to fight tooth and nail to give trans people. No one has done that.

If you want trans people to be elevated and have special rights others do not, fine. I can go along with that. I don't go around disputing rights. Discover one and I'll defend it.

[brunumb]

So much for conversation... I am posting the objective assessment by scientists and scholars. If you are offended by the description, either you only call yourself a Conservative (but aren't one), or you match the description and find it insulting - which I would too - which is why I'm a Leftist.
I don't think anything I said was directed to you specifically, as I don't know you.
But, I'm sorry that you may have been offended by the science. I can check to see if their change their conclusions based on people's feelings?

Amazing how wrong you took this.
You don't like a certain political group and you are very vocal about it here in this debate. I care not to engage with you about it and would not find it fruitful. Your hate is your own cross to bear and I don't know why I should have to defend some political group you don't like.

I don't like bigots, homophobes, violent sexists and racists. I can't really be more clear, and I'm surprised that people defend them.
If it were something I was mistaken about, you can correct me.
After all, I do know many nice people who call themselves "Conservative" but immediately qualify that they aren't "those kinds of Conservatives". Yet, I also know that if you talk with them long enough, you will hear them say racist, sexist, homophobic slurs, and defend violence against all kinds of people.

Even you calling Trans people 'A man in a frock" is demeaning. Who are you trying to hurt? Me? No, you're just trying to offend and hurt Trans people.

You think you are being funny, but that's Conservativism: you can't even recognize your own cruelty.

Do you make fun of other groups of people? Gays? Blacks? Women? People with mental illness? People with autism?

What other Minority do you need to mock and demean? You don't see the difference in Nazi's and those who fight the Nazi's (in the metaphorical sense).

Your one or two examples of a Trans person snapping and being violent isn't an argument. Clearly that's wrong.

When will you post the thousands of examples of Conservatives being violent towards Trans people?

[boatsnguitars]

So much for conversation... I am posting the objective assessment by scientists and scholars. If you are offended by the description, either you only call yourself a Conservative (but aren't one), or you match the description and find it insulting - which I would too - which is why I'm a Leftist.
I don't think anything I said was directed to you specifically, as I don't know you.
But, I'm sorry that you may have been offended by the science. I can check to see if their change their conclusions based on people's feelings?

Amazing how wrong you took this.
You don't like a certain political group and you are very vocal about it here in this debate. I care not to engage with you about it and would not find it fruitful. Your hate is your own cross to bear and I don't know why I should have to defend some political group you don't like.

I don't like bigots, homophobes, violent sexists and racists. I can't really be more clear, and I'm surprised that people defend them.
If it were something I was mistaken about, you can correct me.
After all, I do know many nice people who call themselves "Conservative" but immediately qualify that they aren't "those kinds of Conservatives". Yet, I also know that if you talk with them long enough, you will hear them say racist, sexist, homophobic slurs, and defend violence against all kinds of people.

Even you calling Trans people 'A man in a frock" is demeaning. Who are you trying to hurt? Me? No, you're just trying to offend and hurt Trans people.

You think you are being funny, but that's Conservativism: you can't even recognize your own cruelty.

Do you make fun of other groups of people? Gays? Blacks? Women? People with mental illness? People with autism?

What other Minority do you need to mock and demean? You don't see the difference in Nazi's and those who fight the Nazi's (in the metaphorical sense).

Your one or two examples of a Trans person snapping and being violent isn't an argument. Clearly that's wrong.

When will you post the thousands of examples of Conservatives being violent towards Trans people?

I doubt the video addresses the specific questions I put to you personally. I wish you would engage with the conversation and not use proxies.

However, to the point of the video:

What if they are actually Nazi's?

Or, would you also post the Right Wingers calling Leftists "Fascists", "Communists", etc?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 59062.html

A clip showing former president Donald Trump labelling Democrats as “fascists” is making the rounds online after conservatives attacked President Joe Biden for slamming “MAGA Republicans” in a prime-time address.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/07 ... again.html


Seems there are two sides. The question is, who are the Nazi's? The Left Wing or the actual Nazi's on the Right Wing?

[Clownboat]

I don't like bigots, homophobes, violent sexists and racists.

Neato! Common ground!

If you can pretend that I hate Conservatives, like super duper bad hate them, will you provide your thoughts about the Rugby player?

Copy/paste "What are your thoughts specifically about the rugby player in the presented video? Should the biological females just shut up about their injuries because they are violent bigots (or whatever the charge)? Or would it be prudent to listen to both sides?"

[Clownboat]

Seems there are two sides. The question is, who are the Nazi's? The Left Wing or the actual Nazi's on the Right Wing?

Your question is unhelpful and only fosters hate IMO. I hope those you would like to group in with being Nazi's do not take your approach. Could you imagine if everyone acted this way! Someone is going to have to take the high ground don't you think, lest all we will have is humans calling each other names and we will never discuss specifics that would hopefully lead to improvements?

What more important, the community or waring against conservatives (or the inverse)?

IMO, you seem far too concerned with demeaning groups of people, to then join another group to then unite against the first. Pick a religion to join and you can have the same effect I say. Plenty of humans to put in a box to then war against in religion obviously.
Is this movement an alternative to those that cannot stomach religion perhaps? Does it scratch a specific 'itch' so to speak?

I would prefer if we sought to reason better than we see many of the religious do... My god, my version... is better than yours and you are a sinner that deserves hell.
The correlation: My stance on LGBT is better and you are a Nazi or a bigot or violent or a bit of all three.

Clownboat gets left in the dust to then wonder just what stance/position we should be discussing in place of calling groups of people names.

[Purple Knight]

Seems there are two sides. The question is, who are the Nazi's? The Left Wing or the actual Nazi's on the Right Wing?

Both. You need ideological tolerance to not be a Nazi.

If everyone who disagrees with you is objectively morally wrong, guess what? You're a Nazi.

We're at the point in US history when neither side considers the other to be just another valid choice that simply happens to not line up with theirs. We're at the point when both sides will pull out force and think it's permissible to use violence, and even kill, to defend their side, because their side is morally righteous and the other side is objectively evil. I don't have to show you examples of conservatives using force because they're all over the news. But things like this get buried and forgotten about.

poisoningTrumpsupporters.png

And Leftists will always excuse their ideological intolerance by saying, no, it's everyone else that's the Nazi.

And let's assume that Karl Popper's selective tolerance is valid. In other words, universal tolerance is not a laudable goal. The goal is tolerance of everyone else... who is tolerant.

Ooookay.

But there's a saying that applies to this.

"If you think one person stinks, it's probably them. But if you think everyone stinks... it's you."

[brunumb]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #34]

The speaker highlighted the trans-activist methodology at this point in the video and summed up the outcome as well.

[boatsnguitars]

Seems there are two sides. The question is, who are the Nazi's? The Left Wing or the actual Nazi's on the Right Wing?

Your question is unhelpful and only fosters hate IMO. I hope those you would like to group in with being Nazi's do not take your approach. Could you imagine if everyone acted this way! Someone is going to have to take the high ground don't you think, lest all we will have is humans calling each other names and we will never discuss specifics that would hopefully lead to improvements?

What more important, the community or waring against conservatives (or the inverse)?

IMO, you seem far too concerned with demeaning groups of people, to then join another group to then unite against the first. Pick a religion to join and you can have the same effect I say. Plenty of humans to put in a box to then war against in religion obviously.
Is this movement an alternative to those that cannot stomach religion perhaps? Does it scratch a specific 'itch' so to speak?

I would prefer if we sought to reason better than we see many of the religious do... My god, my version... is better than yours and you are a sinner that deserves hell.
The correlation: My stance on LGBT is better and you are a Nazi or a bigot or violent or a bit of all three.

Clownboat gets left in the dust to then wonder just what stance/position we should be discussing in place of calling groups of people names.

But they are actually Nazis. They have the salute, the symbol, they dress as Nazis and call themselves Nazis. They are, literally, Nazis.

What else would I call them?

[Clownboat]

But they are actually Nazis. They have the salute, the symbol, they dress as Nazis and call themselves Nazis. They are, literally, Nazis.

What else would I call them?

I don't much care, just try not to harm others is my stance. Either way, I was hoping to discuss the topic at hand, not wonder what names to call groups of people.
Once again: "Clownboat gets left in the dust to then wonder just what stance/position we should be discussing in place of calling groups of people names."

In case you missed it the first 2 times it was asked of you:
Copy/paste x2 "What are your thoughts specifically about the rugby player in the presented video? Should the biological females just shut up about their injuries because they are violent bigots (or whatever the charge)? Or would it be prudent to listen to both sides?"

This is an honest question, a real issue and I would like to point out that it has absolutely nothing to do with any Nazi's or wings whether right or left.
Can we discuss it, or would you prefer to continue wondering what names you can call people? If the later, I'm not sure what can be accomplished.