The court ruling on LGBT ENDS THIS DEBATE

[thomasdixon]

The court ruling on LGBT ENDS THIS DEBATE
I believe the courts should rule that a person’s gender is the gender stated on one’s birth certificate and the gender classification cannot be changed, period, nada, zip, never.
(:-

[Clownboat]

The court ruling on LGBT ENDS THIS DEBATE
I believe the courts should rule that a person’s gender is the gender stated on one’s birth certificate and the gender classification cannot be changed, period, nada, zip, never.
(:-

Uh.... Thanks for letting us know your beliefs on the matter.
Do you prefer regular or chunky peanut butter, or perhaps was there a debate question you meant to ask?

[brunumb]

The court ruling on LGBT ENDS THIS DEBATE
I believe the courts should rule that a person’s gender is the gender stated on one’s birth certificate and the gender classification cannot be changed, period, nada, zip, never.
(:-

Just change that to:
Should the courts rule that a person’s gender is the gender stated on one’s birth certificate and the gender classification cannot be changed, period, nada, zip, never?
......and let the debate BEGIN.

[boatsnguitars]

The court ruling on LGBT ENDS THIS DEBATE
I believe the courts should rule that a person’s gender is the gender stated on one’s birth certificate and the gender classification cannot be changed, period, nada, zip, never.
(:-

Dating problems? Did you find a salami in your soup?

[Miles]

The court ruling on LGBT ENDS THIS DEBATE
I believe the courts should rule that a person’s gender is the gender stated on one’s birth certificate and the gender classification cannot be changed, period, nada, zip, never.

Not to be snide or disrespectful, but why should anyone care what you believe? After all, this is a DEBATE forum not a confessional.

.

[boatsnguitars]

In most cases, most people think that gender is unimportant. Gender is unimportant when you buy groceries, or buy a lawn mower.

The only time it seems to really matter is when Men want to control women, or in sports where Society has decided they MUST watch vaginas against vaginas and penises against penises.

Both reasons seem poor to me.

[brunumb]

In most cases, most people think that gender is unimportant. Gender is unimportant when you buy groceries, or buy a lawn mower.

Except when some guy with a beard and chest hair wearing nail polish and a necklace has a total meltdown when you say "Have a nice day, sir". In Michigan than is regarded as a felony with a possible $10 000 fine. Yeah, unimportant.

The only time it seems to really matter is when Men want to control women, or in sports where Society has decided they MUST watch vaginas against vaginas and penises against penises.

Both reasons seem poor to me.

Straw man reasons usually are pretty poor. I suppose men in frocks trying to control what women are supposed to feel comfortable with and wanting to dominate them in their sporting arenas when they have failed in their own does matter. Tuck friendly sports wear is supposed to mitigate that I assume.

[boatsnguitars]

In most cases, most people think that gender is unimportant. Gender is unimportant when you buy groceries, or buy a lawn mower.

Except when some guy with a beard and chest hair wearing nail polish and a necklace has a total meltdown when you say "Have a nice day, sir". In Michigan than is regarded as a felony with a possible $10 000 fine. Yeah, unimportant.

I don't know what you are referring to.
But, I stand by my statement. Mis-gendering someone can be rude, but my point was that the gender of someone performing a service doesn't generally matter - at least in principle. Conservatives often say things like "I don't care if you're Black, White, Green, or Blue as long as you're a decent person! I don't care if you're male or female as long as you do your job!"
Then they complain that certain people can't do the job; women can't fix cars, women can't run companies, men shouldn't care for children, etc.
After all, Conservatives try to conserve the status quo, especially gender roles.
However, generally, most people agree that their lawyer, doctor, mechanic, teacher, boss, etc. can be any gender and they don't mind.

The only time it seems to really matter is when Men want to control women, or in sports where Society has decided they MUST watch vaginas against vaginas and penises against penises.

Both reasons seem poor to me.

Straw man reasons usually are pretty poor. I suppose men in frocks trying to control what women are supposed to feel comfortable with and wanting to dominate them in their sporting arenas when they have failed in their own does matter. Tuck friendly sports wear is supposed to mitigate that I assume.
[/quote]
Not a straw man. The entire sports industry is specifically set up to see men v men, women v women. In the rare case of mixed gender events, they are secondary to the main sports. The closest that comes to reasonably acceptable is in some net sports (tennis, badminton, volley ball, etc.), and a few others: Equestrian, Sailing, Canoeing and Kayaking, Table Tennis, Badminton, Swimming (Relay Events), Shooting.
Pro sports is more segregated.

This has nothing to do with people who are transgender. The fact is, we have a segregated sporting industry. Transgender folk are only highlighting the strangeness of this fascination we have with seeing segregated competition.

The reason Trans people throw a wrench into it is because we've never had to deal with it before. We don't know how to handle it, so the first response is repulsion, derision, hate and violence.

I, however, and many people like me, don't care about sports as some measure of masculine or feminine prowess. That's not to say i think it should stop, but to say that we need to get over ourselves that sports is valuable to society. Other than entertainment, it's useless.

As I have stated before. Usain Bolt is the fastest person on Earth - and so what? Did he use that speed to deliver medicine to needy children? Did he use that speed to rescue miners? No, he made us clap for a few seconds, earned money selling shoes and went home.

All of the athletes you can think of: what did their athletic prowess do for society - other than entertain? Man, woman, trans, gender neutral - name it. Who changed the world because of their physical ability?

Let's explore that: The people who really changed the world due to sports are:

Jesse Owens: As you mentioned, Jesse Owens, an African American track and field athlete, won four gold medals at the 1936 Berlin Olympics, challenging the racial ideologies of Nazi Germany and highlighting the excellence of black athletes.

Jackie Robinson: Robinson broke the color barrier in Major League Baseball in 1947 when he became the first African American player to play in the modern era. His trailblazing achievements opened doors for other black players and significantly impacted the fight against racial segregation in sports.

Althea Gibson: Althea Gibson was a trailblazing African American tennis player who broke barriers in the sport. She became the first black athlete to compete in international tennis competitions and won numerous major titles, including Wimbledon and the U.S. Nationals (now the U.S. Open).

Wilma Rudolph: An African American track and field athlete, Rudolph overcame physical challenges and racial barriers to become a three-time Olympic gold medalist at the 1960 Rome Olympics, inspiring a generation of young athletes.

Billie Jean King: A prominent women's tennis player, King fought for gender equality in sports. She famously defeated Bobby Riggs in the "Battle of the Sexes" tennis match in 1973, showcasing the capabilities of women athletes.

Arthur Ashe: Arthur Ashe was the first African American male to win a Grand Slam tennis title and used his platform to advocate for civil rights and social justice.

Muhammad Ali: Ali, one of the most significant figures in boxing history, not only achieved greatness in the sport but also became an influential social and political activist, challenging racial inequality and resisting the Vietnam War draft.

Jim Thorpe: A Native American athlete, Thorpe excelled in various sports, including football, track and field, and baseball. He became one of the most iconic athletes of the early 20th century and demonstrated Native American athletic prowess to a broader audience.

In other words, their most important impact was in Civil Rights - in getting Conservatives and Bigots to change their views on Women, People of Color, etc.

Maybe we need to add Chris Mosier, Tifanny Abreu, Mianne Bagger, Chelsea Wolfe, Victoria Monaghan and Ness Murby to the list?

I don't think this change will be easy. I think there is a legitimate argument that women's sports needs some protection, but, of course, that was the argument against Black people getting into baseball - that White sports needed to be protected.

And, while it was difficult for a time, only the most bigoted are complaining about Black people in baseball.

I think the debate is not "if men are allowed to put on a dress and call themselves ladies, how would Women's Soccer survive."
I think it's how do we integrate Trans people into our society - just like that was the question with Black people in sports.
Trans people are here. There are going to be more. There are going to be a never ending stream of differently gendered people into society, and it's wrong to stop it - so it will continue.

Ironically, BTW, the "Don't Say Gay Bill" and "Anti-Woke Bill" in Florida is going to accelerate the issue. Teachers, now afraid to say anything that touches on gender issues are forcing themselves to not use pronouns such as "he" or "she", but "they". They are refusing to say "Male or female" for fear of getting sued, so they are creating the very conditions the Bigots fear. Their students will grow up in a gender-less environment, and be very open to using preferred pronouns like "they."

Change is coming. I embrace it, and the only thing I fear is the bigotry and violence from the Right.

[Purple Knight]

The court ruling on LGBT ENDS THIS DEBATE
I believe the courts should rule that a person’s gender is the gender stated on one’s birth certificate and the gender classification cannot be changed, period, nada, zip, never.
(:-

Why should the birth certificate say anything about the person's gender in the first place?

Their students will grow up in a gender-less environment, and be very open to using preferred pronouns like "they."

Good. No one will have special privilege either, and I'm not going to say all people on the Left fear it, because it's probably true that most genuinely want the equality they say they do... but a few instigators will not be happy with this, because special privilege is something they cannot live without.

[brunumb]

In most cases, most people think that gender is unimportant. Gender is unimportant when you buy groceries, or buy a lawn mower.

Except when some guy with a beard and chest hair wearing nail polish and a necklace has a total meltdown when you say "Have a nice day, sir". In Michigan than is regarded as a felony with a possible $10 000 fine. Yeah, unimportant.

I don't know what you are referring to.

Perhaps you should check it out then.

Meanwhile: