Is it selfish to convert others?

[scorpia]

Continued from here

Question is as the title says; Just how is those who think someone should be converted or whatever is selfish?

Well no, I don't believe accusing someone of self-righteousness is self-rightous in the same sense,

Why not? Self-righteousness is self-righteousness.

but if it was, then ALL accusations, debates, opinions etc are self-righteous, hence YOU are too for debating me and this whole forum is filled with self-righteous people! Hence, why debate at all? Let's all become inert and humble. Excuse the sarcasm.

And that it is. And that I am. I accept that. I am not going to worry about how I look, whether self-righteous or otherwise, in order to get a point across that I feel needs telling.

And going back some time to the conversion of the natives (be they American or Australian) most of these missionaries did it for THEMSELVES, so put their own souls in good light and to gain favour with God etc.

Maybe, but why does it matter why they do it, so long as it gets done? What's more important; whether the doctor saved someone's life for his own gratification or not, or the fact that he saved a life and got the job done?

So he does it to make God happy? So what? It is either that, or decide not to do it in order to make other people happy. Either way what the person does would be so that he may gratified by others.

Sure some would have done it as a self-less act, but does not make it any more right. Who are they to dictate what's right and wrong? The natives had their own religion, so by trying to convert was a sign of disrespect and self-rightousness. Why should Christianity be the prevailing religion?

I am sure all of these other religions are very interesting. But what's more important, keeping a variety of cultures, or having people safe?

Let everyone go to hell? Some people don't BELIEVE in hell and are happy with their own god. Some people don't believe in a deity full stop. Why should someone impose their beliefs on someone in order to save them from something that is NOT in their beliefs in the first place

I can see how those others should be respected, for their loyalty at least, but try to keep in mind that the converter is trying to save souls., which can be more important than anything else. And it is a hard thing to do to respect another's person's beliefs when it is fact in the converter's eyes that hell exists and they have to save them?

They are simply doing what they feel is right. How can anyone be angry at a person for simply doing that? Would you rather people just ignore what they know is right or wrong and just do nothing, when something may very well be needed to be done, just so that they don't appear selfish or self-righteous?

[Marishiten]

Yes. Or so it should be.

yes, so they're hypocrites.

[/quote]Maybe. But then again, I don't see why it would technically be uncaring. Misguided, maybe. But uncaring? Selfish? Why would anyone, atheist or Christian or otherwise do it in the first place if that is what it's all about? Just think, why do they do it? They'd have their reasons.[/quote]

Like you said, I'd just be repeating myself. I believe I've answered most of this about 3 times by now. But as for the reasons, I can't speak for all of them, but I believe that most of them do it because
a) they truly want to 'save'
b) they believe that their religion/lack of is wrong
c) they just want to make themselves feel better/look better in the face of God
d) any combination, or all of the above.

Yet in all of these reasons, and ones you mentoned, it still does NOT change the fact that it gives accross the message that these converters DO NOT respect the people, because if they did, they would quite happily let them believe in what they want to, and do what they want to - it's called respecting other people's choices and beliefs.

And I'd just like to know why anyone would get so highly disturbed about it. It may be annoying to some, but it's not the worst sort of person you can run into.

Beacuse so many cultures and beliefs have been lost, or almost lost, because of these people.

[scorpia]

yes, so they're hypocrites.

Why?

Because they judge? No, they haven't judged a thing. God judged, they follow.

So why?

Like you said, I'd just be repeating myself. I believe I've answered most of this about 3 times by now. But as for the reasons, I can't speak for all of them, but I believe that most of them do it because
a) they truly want to 'save'

Which is better than not doing anything. Inaction can be a bigger misdoing than anything.

b) they believe that their religion/lack of is wrong

Big deal you think their religion is wrong. In fact you downright call it a delusion. Again, no better. At least an evangelist doesn't go around calling other people's belief's "delusions." Other things, yes, but not that.

c) they just want to make themselves feel better/look better in the face of God

It's called trying to please someone other than oneself. They love God, of course they're going to do what he says. Wouldn't you try to do the same for someone you care about?

Yet in all of these reasons, and ones you mentoned, it still does NOT change the fact that it gives accross the message that these converters DO NOT respect the people, because if they did, they would quite happily let them believe in what they want to, and do what they want to - it's called respecting other people's choices and beliefs.

.... And letting them suffer. Yes, that is so respectful.

That's not respecting a person. That's respecting their beliefs, which doesn't necessarily have to do with the person. In fact not evangelising can very well be seen as not respecting a person. That's how they see it.

And not only that, they're being put against God. Why in the world is it so wrong to ask others to befriend him? That's what it's all about, not erasing cultures or anything but God.

Beacuse so many cultures and beliefs have been lost, or almost lost, because of these people.

There are more important things than that. thank you very much. What's more important? People, or the culture? Not only that, but such an evangelist would learn about the culture anyway and even adopt some of it while evangelising. So this is insufficient to warrant such a reaction.

So is there anything else would cause it?

Just as an example, I guess you'd know about wacco. Or some other such "cult", yeah I can see how deprogramming would seem wrong, but I can also see how others fear for the follower's safety threatened by their beliefs. Can't you?

[Greatest I Am]

Yes, you are your brothers keeper. We all are.

If mankind had not told itself when it was wrong about things then we would be much more stupid than we are today.

Many Good Americans still think that most Canadians live in Igloo's. I thankfully found out differently.
If I had not been informed of this truth then I could at some time look pretty stupid.

That's why we pass on information.

Knowing there is a God, makes it a duty for believers to convert others as much as we can.
This being the greatest truth of all make it even more important.

Regards
DL

[agnosis]

Knowing there is a God, makes it a duty for believers to convert others as much as we can.
This being the greatest truth of all make it even more important.

Regards
DL

From a non-Christian point of view, you confuse knowledge with belief. I don't believe it is possible for humanity to achieve knowledge of God any more than we can know anything. Its probably a symptom of too much time spent studying philosophy, but everything comes down to trusting one's senses. How do we know we can trust our senses? Nobody could possibly argue that Christianity falls into the category of innate knowledge, and so it lands squarely in the "belief" category.

What happens if you encounter someone who looks upon it as their duty to convert others to atheism in order to end the delusion of religion?

[Greatest I Am]

Knowing there is a God, makes it a duty for believers to convert others as much as we can.
This being the greatest truth of all make it even more important.

Regards
DL

From a non-Christian point of view, you confuse knowledge with belief. I don't believe it is possible for humanity to achieve knowledge of God any more than we can know anything. Its probably a symptom of too much time spent studying philosophy, but everything comes down to trusting one's senses. How do we know we can trust our senses? Nobody could possibly argue that Christianity falls into the category of innate knowledge, and so it lands squarely in the "belief" category.

GIA wrote
Not in my case. I am trying to match scripture to my knowledge that God exists.
If no direct communication had occurred to me then I would have carried on in my non believer status.

What happens if you encounter someone who looks upon it as their duty to convert others to atheism in order to end the delusion of religion?

All we can do as Christians is carry on.
All you can do as a non believer is the same.
All, especially Christians, have a strange view of scripture. Not surprising then that if Christians cannot give omnipotence and Perfection to God, how can we convince others of the truth, as we see it.

Follow your God given nature and you will find truth. It is not hidden.
We are in a Perfect environment to do the will of God.
It happens naturally just follow your bliss.

Regards
DL