"Slavery" in the Bible

[POI]

Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7.

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

************************

Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'

[TRANSPONDER]

...Well, God does not seem to have a problem with it...

By what I see, God don't want people to be treated wrongly. For example because of the rule "love your neighbor as yourself".

You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people; but you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am Yahweh.
Lev. 19:18

Do you have some good reason to ignore that instruction of God?

That did not nor does not mean that the people of the Book could not own slaves as property. It is clear applied to foreigners from the NT that slavery was accepted,even if one conceded that 'neighbour' would apply to foreigners rather that 'the children of your people'.

This excuse that 'play nice' passages meant that God did not condone slavery is a fine example of taking a passage out of context. Which is funny when it is Bible apologists who complain about we goddless taking passages out of context.

But of course 'context' in that case means Interpreting in the 'spirit', which translates as making the Bible say what you want it to say, and what what you want it to say is that God did not want people owned as property and dropped big hints that he was dead against it. But what it says is that one could own a foreigner for life and pass them on as property to their children, and that is slavery even if the rules about treatment of slaves did apply to them and not just Hebrew slaves.

The bottom line of course is as usual - finding some pretext to dismiss the clear tolerance of chattel slavery in the Bible is really so you can push away any doubts and questions. But the point is, those who do have doubts and questions will see that we are right - God does tolerate slavery and does not speak out against it. Or rather,the Bible does, and a god is nothing to do with it.

[TRANSPONDER]

...Bottom line is that, a slave master can beat their slaves, with impunity, provided they do not knock out eyes/teeth. This instruction apparently comes from the God you worship. Do you agree with God's instruction here?

I agree with God's instructions. By them, I think no one would beat anyone, not even slaves. For example I think this is a good instruction in this case:

You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether he be of your brothers, or of your foreigners who are in your land within your gates: in his day you shall give him his hire, neither shall the sun go down on it; for he is poor, and sets his heart on it: lest he cry against you to Yahweh, and it be sin to you. The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. You shall not wrest the justice due to the foreigner, or to the fatherless, nor take the widow’s clothing to pledge; but you shall remember that you were a bondservant in Egypt, and Yahweh your God redeemed you there: therefore I command you to do this thing.
Deu. 24:14-18

But, maybe it depends much on, do you read it by letter, or by spirit.

There is a distinction between a hired servant and a slave (from foreigners) who were property....

If there is distinction, why is the scripture speaking of "bondservants" (=usually translated also slaves) in the same context with "hired servants"?

Interesting thing is, if I translate Deu. 24:14 from Hebrew to English, it says: "You shall not do evil to your brothers or to your enemies in your land at your gates". I think that is a good instruction.

Because they are all dealing with the treatment of others - fellow Jews or foreigners, servants or slaves. It makes sense that they are pointing up rules about treating Jewish slaves differently from foreign ones and hired servants differently from chattel slaves. What is inescapable is that the Bible says that Hebrews can own foreign slaves for life as property. That trumps any and all attempts to Interpret all those other passages.

Not a fan of dental care, vaccines, antibiotics... or computers.... ?

I would rather take justice, freedom and clean environment.

We'd all like that, in addition to decent healthcare, free education for all and a senate with a respect for science even if they didn't understand it. However, it is far from clear that a Theocratic america would give us any of those. Remember that next election, folks.

[POI]

In celebration of my 2000th post, I would like to personally thank JehovasWitness for prompting the existence of this thread. As usual, he dodged yet another question, which backed him into a proverbial debate corner

If my memory serves me correctly, poster JehovahsWitness is a woman. I apologise if that is incorrect.

Doh! Post 2000 {edited}, thanx.

[JayLev]

So this is the thing about slavery in the Bible. We as 21st century Americans see slavery based on race, back then it was either that a person would become a slave willingly to pay off debt, or they would be captured from enemies. We can also see that God does not like unrighteous slavery, pharaoh was drowned for it.

[POI]

...Well, God does not seem to have a problem with it...

By what I see, God don't want people to be treated wrongly. For example because of the rule "love your neighbor as yourself".

You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people; but you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am Yahweh.
Lev. 19:18

Do you have some good reason to ignore that instruction of God?

I see you are responding to less and less. Probably in an attempt to wiggle your way out of this exchange....

Further, your response was already covered in the original post. Why are you moving backwards? (i.e.)

"the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'

************************************

You stated you agree with God's instructions. God's instructions for "slavery" include the sanctioning of chattel slavery and slave breeding. This means you do too, unless you now wish to retract your prior statement, and you really do not agree with chattel slavery and slave breeding (like God does)????

[JayLev]

God does not instruct it, but gives rules for it. God never once said “go get slaves” but has rules when you do. The argument is flawed saying “ oh God says slavery is great!” Because as I said before, it was not based on race. I have ZERO problem with the slavery of the Bible, but I a trillion problems with the slavery of the 21st century.

[POI]

So this is the thing about slavery in the Bible. We as 21st century Americans see slavery based on race, back then it was either that a person would become a slave willingly to pay off debt, or they would be captured from enemies. We can also see that God does not like unrighteous slavery, pharaoh was drowned for it.

I'll address the red herrings in other responses. Please respond to the debate questions. Here they are:

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

[POI]

God does not instruct it, but gives rules for it. God never once said “go get slaves” but has rules when you do. The argument is flawed saying “ oh God says slavery is great!” Because as I said before, it was not based on race. I have ZERO problem with the slavery of the Bible, but I a trillion problems with the slavery of the 21st century.

Please re-read my debate questions, and answer with a yes or no. Hint.... Please also understand what the word 'sanction' means.

[POI]

God does not instruct it

Yes he does. His instructions gives the would-be slave master the proper road map for approved of slavery practices:

1) If a male slave is provided with a wife, and they have children, the wife and the children remain with the slave master for life, ala (Ex. 21:4). This is slave breeding.

2) When the male slave realizes his wife and children cannot come with him, upon year 7, he may opt to remain with his family. Since 'indentured servants' and 'slaves' were likely illiterate, and also, no lawyer was there to disclose all provisions, prior to being acquired by a master, this was how the male was tricked into lifetime slavery. Ala (Ex. 21:5-6).

3) No rhyme or reason is stated, as to how much, or how often a slave can be beaten. Only that they can be beaten, with complete impunity, provided they are not killed. Ala (Ex. 21:20-21)

4) If the slave's eye or teeth should happen to pop out, the male slave can go free. I guess this is why slave masters whipped or beat their slaves from the back side. (Ex. 21:26-27)

5) Foreigners, or temporary residents, can be purchased as slaves for life. They are deemed the master's property. They can also be passed off to their kids as property. And if any slaves were to mate, and have kids, I bet the master got to keep them too, since it is his property. This is more slave breeding. Likely little different then owning livestock. (Lev. 25:44-46)

God never once said “go get slaves” but has rules when you do.

God apparently allows for it. If God did not like it, he would say so. Just like God has no problem telling us humans what he does not like elsewhere (i.e.) no shellfish, no mixed fabrics, no same sex activities, etc etc etc etc....

The argument is flawed saying “ oh God says slavery is great!”

Arguments are easy to knock down when you provide a strawman. This is not my argument. My argument is that God allows for such practices, I.E. chattel slavery and slave breeding. Heck, God apparently provides the instructions on how to do so, for the ones who aspire to do so...

Because as I said before, it was not based on race.

I never said it was. This is your strawman argument again....

I have ZERO problem with the slavery of the Bible,

Great, so you are okay with chattel slavery and slave breeding?

but I a trillion problems with the slavery of the 21st century.

Does this mean you ignore Leviticus 25:44-46?

[POI]

God does not like unrighteous slavery

What would be "righteous slavery"?