Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

[POI]

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

[brunumb]

[Replying to DaveD49 in post #549]

I said that I largely ditched my religious beliefs in my early teens. The more I looked into Christianity the more far-fetched I found it to be. When I began visiting discussion sites like this, I was looking for Christians to explain to me why they believed. I have yet to hear anything remotely compelling. Anecdotes and the sort of experiences that people regard as convincing to them don't cut it all. And saying that God is love just clashes with reality as far as I am concerned.

[brunumb]

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11 suggest it is impossible to demonstrate the existence of the Christian God... it says that some will never believe...

If the existence of the Christian God cannot be demonstrated then it makes no sense to believe in it. Therefore some will never believe. That part makes sense.

[Shem Yoshi]

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11 suggest it is impossible to demonstrate the existence of the Christian God... it says that some will never believe...

If the existence of the Christian God cannot be demonstrated then it makes no sense to believe in it. Therefore some will never believe. That part makes sense.

Well the nature of the Christian God calls for faith to believe. If Christianity is true then it is true that some will not believe, for the Christian God says some will not believe (like in the parable of the sower). So the fact that some dont believe supports Christianity being true...

I think a better question would be 'what is the truth?' instead of 'demonstrate Christianity is true'.... Some will never believe. But what is the truth? objectively?

[William]

[Replying to Shem Yoshi in post #553]

I think a better question would be 'what is the truth?' instead of 'demonstrate Christianity is true'....

"demonstrate Christianity is true'.... " is a demand, rather than a question.

But what is the truth? objectively?

Evidence which can be objectively found to exist within nature...truth appears to be something which is fragmented and requires the pieces to fit together in an overall coherency ... in order for the conscious truth-seeker to understand it.

[DaveD49]

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11 suggest it is impossible to demonstrate the existence of the Christian God... it says that some will never believe...

If the existence of the Christian God cannot be demonstrated then it makes no sense to believe in it. Therefore some will never believe. That part makes sense.

I'm sorry, but 2 Thessalonians 2:10-11 doesn't say that. Nor do I believe that Paul would ever have made a statement like that because Paul knew that there was only ONE God and so there was no such thing as a "Christian" God. It says (with verse 12 included) " 10 ...and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not accept the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God [m]will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness."

You should check your quotes.

[William]

[Replying to DaveD49 in post #555]

Paul knew that there was only ONE God and so there was no such thing as a "Christian" God.

I think that when folk say "Christian God" they are referring to YHVH, who is often understood to being the "Jewish God".

Therefore, if Paul was referring to there being only "ONE God", he was likely referring to YHVH.

Agreed?

[DaveD49]

[Replying to DaveD49 in post #555]

Paul knew that there was only ONE God and so there was no such thing as a "Christian" God.

I think that when folk say "Christian God" they are referring to YHVH, who is often understood to being the "Jewish God".

Therefore, if Paul was referring to there being only "ONE God", he was likely referring to YHVH.

Agreed?

It was the post that I was answering that made the 2Thessalonians misquote.

[William]

[Replying to DaveD49 in post #555]

Paul knew that there was only ONE God and so there was no such thing as a "Christian" God.

I think that when folk say "Christian God" they are referring to YHVH, who is often understood to being the "Jewish God".

Therefore, if Paul was referring to there being only "ONE God", he was likely referring to YHVH.

Agreed?

It was the post that I was answering that made the 2Thessalonians misquote.

Do you agree with my observation?

[TRANSPONDER]

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11 suggest it is impossible to demonstrate the existence of the Christian God... it says that some will never believe...

Sorry, but that is one that should have gone into 'worst Bible quotes ever'. If I backed up 'There are fairies at the bottom of my garden' with 'The proof of that is that some people will never believe it' (without mentioning that they would believe it if they were fairly proven, but they will not be and the speaker of the tosh knows they won't be) then the whole of unplanned creation would laugh at me. Paul's bitter swipe may have bamboozled Thracian peasants in the 1sr c. but it won';t bamboozle us, and I can hardly believe it bamboozles you.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-11 suggest it is impossible to demonstrate the existence of the Christian God... it says that some will never believe...

If the existence of the Christian God cannot be demonstrated then it makes no sense to believe in it. Therefore some will never believe. That part makes sense.

Or maybe I got you wrong. Yes, without decent evidence, some will never believe it. And on logic and evidence, they'd be right not to. If that was your point you have it right. Appeal to Faith is appeal to a delusion, and some will never believe that. Even though on logic and evidence, it's true.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to DaveD49 in post #549]

I said that I largely ditched my religious beliefs in my early teens. The more I looked into Christianity the more far-fetched I found it to be. When I began visiting discussion sites like this, I was looking for Christians to explain to me why they believed. I have yet to hear anything remotely compelling. Anecdotes and the sort of experiences that people regard as convincing to them don't cut it all. And saying that God is love just clashes with reality as far as I am concerned.

"Doo-doo, doo-doodo,
(Brunumb, brunumb)
Do-doo-do,doo
(Brunumb, brunumb)..."

The chase - nothing but excuses and appeals to the unknown as though there was a shred of credible evidence that a god was hiding there.

And that's just some sorta god, which atheists don't mind (read: don't care). The evidence against any of the personal gods of religions is so poor that we can say 'Does not exist' with logical permit, even though Technically it is not 100% provable. But that I have to explain that shows up the paucity of the christian case, that they have to resort to pettifogging nitpicks like 'you can't be 100% sure', you can't disprove it, science doesn't know everything'" in vain hopes that if they can discredit atheists and debunk science, it leaves the god - claim intact.

We know why, Faith does this.