Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

[POI]

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

[kjw47]

All the signs are in place.

Babylon the great falling is the next event. That locks the door to all not in. It triggers the tribulation.

Interesting. Can you give us a date, time, location, people involved, or any other specifics? Or, is it just another blanket open-ended 'prediction'? I mean, should I quit my job and spend all my money now, or is it going to happen 10 years from now? How much time, specifically, do I have left before this 'door' is closed?

C.T.Russell said in 1879--Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914--he was correct. Using the prophecy in Daniel pointed to that year to be Rev 6--No others on earth could figure it out they had centuries before MR. Russell.

I find it interesting we still have millions of "Watchtower" followers today? The JW organization sure seems to like to double, triple, and even quadruple down. The entire organization/doctrine is basically predicated upon one dead dude, who got stuff wrong. If you do not believe me, just google 'failed watchtower predictions'.

The solution, you ask? Reinterpret them Indoctrination, by way of fear-mongering -- (which is what you are trying to do here), along with repetition and reinterpretation, is key for the survival of this interesting collection of beliefs.

Yes he made errors. He exposed many truths as well. I know all that occurred through the years. Matt 24:45--At the proper time truths were revealed. Errors prior to that proper time. He only had error filled trinity translations back then as well. 1750 years of lies arent undone overnight. What the JW,s do have is the backing of Jesus' teachings and the backing of true God worship history. So yes this world is in trouble, they better relook.

Your continued doom-and-gloom approach carries with it absolutely no credibility, unless you offer up specifics. And unfortunately for Mr. Russell, when he did that, he failed.

Case/point for a proper prediction: So-and-so of such-and-such country will fire off a nuclear missile on June 14th, 2024 @1800 PST. This happens because so-and-so wants this-and-that, and so-and-so does not comply. 17 more nukes are fired, which causes X amount of people to be immediately incinerated. Over the next 14 months, this-and-that happens. And by 2027, the world human population is under 10K people. So-and-so becomes a world leader and passes XYZ policies. He remains in power for 11 years, until he dies of X. etc etc etc

You see, that is a prophecy. All you guys have is vague and open-ended stuff, which you JW's get to 'reinterpret' if/when it does not pan out to your liking.

Thus, I ask anew. Should I cash in my life's savings and blow it all quickly, or do I have more time? I need specifics, at a minimum of the example given above.

No one knows the day or hour but the Father. The signs are all pointing to being near the end. All have seen Rev 13 for many years. So we are quite a ways past that point. The bible prophecies will come to pass without fail.

[POI]

No one knows the day or hour

This is the only true statement you can demonstrate. The rest...? Well, simply exchange one god, with another, and then say practically what you stated afterwards, and you have the makings of exactly the same "credible" claim. Which-is-to-say, nothing but blank assertions, to try and scare one into believing you.

[brunumb]

No one knows the day or hour but the Father. The signs are all pointing to being near the end. All have seen Rev 13 for many years. So we are quite a ways past that point. The bible prophecies will come to pass without fail.

You can demonstrate complete faith in that by giving away all but the barest of your essentials to the poor in order to give them a modicum of comfort before the end. We won't know if you fail to do that, but deep in your own heart you will know, as will God, that you were lacking in true faith.

[kjw47]

No one knows the day or hour

This is the only true statement you can demonstrate. The rest...? Well, simply exchange one god, with another, and then say practically what you stated afterwards, and you have the makings of exactly the same "credible" claim. Which-is-to-say, nothing but blank assertions, to try and scare one into believing you.

Being scared to believe doesnt work. Having love for the creator is what works.

[TRANSPONDER]

No one knows the day or hour

This is the only true statement you can demonstrate. The rest...? Well, simply exchange one god, with another, and then say practically what you stated afterwards, and you have the makings of exactly the same "credible" claim. Which-is-to-say, nothing but blank assertions, to try and scare one into believing you.

Being scared to believe doesnt work. Having love for the creator is what works.

Non believers are scared to believe...belief is love for the creator... It's malicious and I think delusional (love for the creator is self -love, or perhaps love for oneself as validated by the Group). Probably quite effective, as manipulation, but disgusting.

[kjw47]

No one knows the day or hour

This is the only true statement you can demonstrate. The rest...? Well, simply exchange one god, with another, and then say practically what you stated afterwards, and you have the makings of exactly the same "credible" claim. Which-is-to-say, nothing but blank assertions, to try and scare one into believing you.

Being scared to believe doesnt work. Having love for the creator is what works.

Non believers are scared to believe...belief is love for the creator... It's malicious and I think delusional (love for the creator is self -love, or perhaps love for oneself as validated by the Group). Probably quite effective, as manipulation, but disgusting.

Jehovah created all things by his power alone. He created Jesus direct first and last, then created all other things through his master worker( Prov 8)=Jesus)--So without Jehovah creating all things, no one would be in existence, they would have 0. We owe it all to him. He asks us to listen to his advice, which benefits us and for us to love him like a Father. He is offering eternal life to those who do. Never sick, not aging like now, never without, no war, fear, pain, death, greed, lying ,cheating, no more satan influences etc,etc,etc. So really its not so much to ask of us for a life like that.

[brunumb]

He asks us to listen to his advice, which benefits us and for us to love him like a Father. He is offering eternal life to those who do. Never sick, not aging like now, never without, no war, fear, pain, death, greed, lying ,cheating, no more satan influences etc,etc,etc. So really its not so much to ask of us for a life like that.

Let us not forget that this incompetent, negligent Father is ultimately responsible for most of that (sickness, aging, fear, pain, death, Satan....) from his actions at the very beginning. To then turn around and offer eternal life in exchange for love is a real slap in the face. If he was sincere about that, he would front up and make the offer in person instead of hiding and relying on dodgy human intermediaries who are renowned for being greedy liars and cheats.

[kjw47]

He asks us to listen to his advice, which benefits us and for us to love him like a Father. He is offering eternal life to those who do. Never sick, not aging like now, never without, no war, fear, pain, death, greed, lying ,cheating, no more satan influences etc,etc,etc. So really its not so much to ask of us for a life like that.

Let us not forget that this incompetent, negligent Father is ultimately responsible for most of that (sickness, aging, fear, pain, death, Satan....) from his actions at the very beginning. To then turn around and offer eternal life in exchange for love is a real slap in the face. If he was sincere about that, he would front up and make the offer in person instead of hiding and relying on dodgy human intermediaries who are renowned for being greedy liars and cheats.

God created Adam and Eve perfect, to live forever, never sick, nor aging like now, knowing only good--He handed them that on a silver platter, so they werent robots he asked them not to do a single thing. Giving them free will to listen to his advice out of love and appreciation for all he gave to them free of charge. How much value is that? A liar comes along who did 0 for them, they took his side, they chose mortals to know bad, not God. Issues were raised against Gods sovereignty, so once and for all time all rebels are being rooted out and will not get eternal life. God knows what is best for all concerned for all time. No mortal does.

[Miles]

He asks us to listen to his advice, which benefits us and for us to love him like a Father. He is offering eternal life to those who do. Never sick, not aging like now, never without, no war, fear, pain, death, greed, lying ,cheating, no more satan influences etc,etc,etc. So really its not so much to ask of us for a life like that.

Let us not forget that this incompetent, negligent Father is ultimately responsible for most of that (sickness, aging, fear, pain, death, Satan....) from his actions at the very beginning. To then turn around and offer eternal life in exchange for love is a real slap in the face. If he was sincere about that, he would front up and make the offer in person instead of hiding and relying on dodgy human intermediaries who are renowned for being greedy liars and cheats.

Being omnipotent God supposedly created Adam and Eve perfect, to live forever, never sick, nor aging like now, knowing only good (and this was the card God kept up his sleeve; keeping them ignorant of bad and not letting the two know they would soon be confronted by a not-so-good, crafty, old serpent) --He handed them that on a silver platter[.] Nice guy! [S]o they werent robots he asked them not to do a single thing except as he had already foreseen: fall for his accomplice Satan's ploy. Giving them a sense of free will to listen to his advice out of love and appreciation for all he gave to them free of charge, except for the trap they were about to fall into, which was the price they would be paying. And god asked them, "How much value is that?" Having no idea what God was talking about or what was going on they were left standing dumbstruck. Being omniscient, god knew a liar was about to come along who did 0 for them, they took his side, they chose mortals to know bad, not God. Just as god knew they would. Issues were raised against Gods sovereignty, so once and for all time all rebels are being rooted out and will not get eternal life. Exactly as god knew they would. God knows what is best for all concerned for all time, which is why he allowed sin to be brought into the world. No mortal does, which suited god just fine because he wasn't looking for truly perfect creatures at all, just those who would provide him with entertainment. God was bored and really needed a little excitement in his life. Hence the conspiracy between God and Satan to do just that; create flawed creatures who would always be at each other's throats somewhere in the world.

.

[brunumb]

God created Adam and Eve perfect, to live forever, never sick, nor aging like now, knowing only good--He handed them that on a silver platter, so they werent robots he asked them not to do a single thing.

Then along came a liar, a creature created by God and allowed into their perfect domain, who proceeded to seduce them. Knowing only good they could not see anything wrong in what they were being told. God was somewhere in hiding so not there to council his beloved children and protect them from the evil he had allowed into the garden. Afterwards, God was so miffed about what had happened he changed their perfect status so that they could become sick, age and die, then he threw them out, or should I say disfellowshipped them. Such a loving father. Reminds me of the way some extremist religious groups treat their own children.

By the way, he did not hand them anything on a silver platter. They had no choice in being made. As their maker, God was completely responsibility for their care and well-being. Abandoning them to be seduced by an evil creature of his own making makes him guilty of depraved indifference.