How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

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otseng
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How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1

Post by otseng »

From the On the Bible being inerrant thread:
nobspeople wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:42 amHow can you trust something that's written about god that contradictory, contains errors and just plain wrong at times? Is there a logical way to do so, or do you just want it to be god's word so much that you overlook these things like happens so often through the history of christianity?
otseng wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:08 am The Bible can still be God's word, inspired, authoritative, and trustworthy without the need to believe in inerrancy.
For debate:
How can the Bible be considered authoritative and inspired without the need to believe in the doctrine of inerrancy?

While debating, do not simply state verses to say the Bible is inspired or trustworthy.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1281

Post by Tcg »

otseng wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:37 am
What I find disingenuous is skeptics attack the Bible. but refuse to defend the most basic questions about their beliefs. Skeptics mock the Bible as a fairy tale and makes ridiculous claims like the earth is at the center of the universe. But when challenged to present evidence to support their view, it is not presented. If evidence cannot be supported, who is then the one who accepts things by faith?

Which "skeptics" have suggested that the Bible presents that the earth as the center of the universe. Absent this is your objection anything other than a strawman which we all know is easy to knock down.


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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1282

Post by Diogenes »

otseng wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:37 am
Diogenes wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:10 pm Yes, science, history, archeology, and all the sciences assume 'naturalism.' So do Christian apologists in 99% of their arguments, as they try to use history, archeology, and all the sciences to support their 'unnatural' beliefs.
Yes, I agree. And as I've demonstrated in this massive thread, history, geology, archaeology, and now cosmology supports the Biblical view.
Now you are just making a false claim. This thread has proved the opposite. You have not "demonstrated support of the Biblical view. Many of your claims have been competently contradicted by several debaters.
I grant there is some, limited archeological support for some of the historical incidents and people of the Bible. When you have run into the hard fact of science, history, and archeology disproving many Biblical accounts, you dispute the facts or resort to "the supernatural."
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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1283

Post by Diogenes »

Tcg wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:46 am
Which "skeptics" have suggested that the Bible presents that the earth as the center of the universe. Absent this is your objection anything other than a strawman which we all know is easy to knock down.
I'll push back a bit re: the issue of the Bible's view of the Earth as the "center" of the universe. We can debate the meaning of various passages, but it is clear that apologists have long favored the view that the Bible is the center of everything, even when finally agreeing it is not the '"geometric" center of the universe.'
However, the earth occupies the central position in the entire universe because of its God-given role, even though it may not be in the geometrical center. The first astronomical object that God created was the earth; this clearly indicates its importance amongst all of the other stars and planets. The creation account gives a day by day report on the preparation of the earth as man’s dwelling place. God’s attention focuses on this planet: “"To the Lord your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it"” (Deut. 10:14). On this planet, He implemented most of His creative ideas, as the Psalmist cries out: “". . . the earth is full of your creatures"” (Ps. 104:24). No other astronomical body is called God’s footstool (Isa. 66:1; Acts 7:49). The clearest indication of the earth’s central position is that God’s own Son was sent here. Jesus Christ became a human being for our sake. He destroyed man’s sin exactly in that place where it had been introduced into the universe, namely the earth! The cross of salvation stood on Calvary and no other place in the cosmos. Jesus ascended to heaven from the earth, and He will return here as exalted Lord when He comes again.

These few cosmological considerations from the Bible clearly indicate that evolutionist ideas are completely foreign to Scripture.
[emphasis applied]
https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/ ... erse-ob12/

There are many scriptural references to the geocentric model, whether one wishes to limit this to the solar system or the universe. I suggest Biblical authors did not make this distinction. Just a few of many references:
The most important biblical quote supporting a geocentric universe can be found in the Book of Joshua. This will be used as the starting point for our scriptural cosmology.

Joshua 10:12-13
Then spoke Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon." And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

The miracle of Joshua appears again as a reference in The Book of Habakkuk.

Habakkuk 3:11
The sun and moon stood still in their habitation at the light of thine arrows as they sped, at the flash of thy glittering spear.

The evidence in support of a geocentric model is overwhelming here. Joshua commanded the sun to stand still. He did not order the earth to cease rotating nor did he qualify his statement with the divine knowledge that the sun was merely made to appear stationary. The sun was commanded to stand still because it is the sun that moves. Descriptions of its motion can be rather poetic.

Psalms 19:4-6
yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes forth like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and like a strong man runs his course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them; and there is nothing hid from its heat.

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises.
....
https://hypertextbook.com/eworld/geocentric/
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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1284

Post by otseng »

Tcg wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:46 am Which "skeptics" have suggested that the Bible presents that the earth as the center of the universe. Absent this is your objection anything other than a strawman which we
The firmament cosmology presents the earth at the center of the universe. Even the Greeks believed the earth was at the center of the universe.
Diogenes wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:57 am Many of your claims have been competently contradicted by several debaters.
Really? I would disagree. But, I'll leave that to the readers to judge based on who has presented the better arguments and evidence, rather than simply repeating assertions, presenting fallacious arguments, and avoiding answering questions when challenged.
Diogenes wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:04 pm I'll push back a bit re: the issue of the Bible's view of the Earth as the "center" of the universe. We can debate the meaning of various passages, but it is clear that apologists have long favored the view that the Bible is the center of everything, even when finally agreeing it is not the '"geometric" center of the universe.'
Yes, I agree the Bible suggests the earth is special and in a symbolic sense the center of the universe. But, to go another step, we should also investigate whether there is any basis to believe it is also literally in the geometric center of the universe. And after looking into this years ago, I surprisingly found it's a plausible scenario. As a matter of fact, even more plausible than not being at the center.

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1285

Post by christian001 »

We can trust the Bible because it is inerrant. Some people believe the Bible is full of errors but many of these alleged errors are due to spelling differences, misunderstanding the context, etc. https://www.explainchristianity.com/is- ... of-errors/

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

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Post by JoeyKnothead »

christian001 wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:06 am We can trust the Bible because it is inerrant. Some people believe the Bible is full of errors but many of these alleged errors are due to spelling differences, misunderstanding the context, etc. https://www.explainchristianity.com/is- ... of-errors/
If the Bible's inerrant, how come it tells us dead folks can hop up and move about?
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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1287

Post by William »

[Replying to otseng in post #1284]
Yes, I agree the Bible suggests the earth is special and in a symbolic sense the center of the universe. But, to go another step, we should also investigate whether there is any basis to believe it is also literally in the geometric center of the universe. And after looking into this years ago, I surprisingly found it's a plausible scenario. As a matter of fact, even more plausible than not being at the center.
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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1288

Post by otseng »

christian001 wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:06 am We can trust the Bible because it is inerrant. Some people believe the Bible is full of errors but many of these alleged errors are due to spelling differences, misunderstanding the context, etc. https://www.explainchristianity.com/is- ... of-errors/
This is a common misunderstanding and I believe a fundamental reason why so many Christians hold to inerrancy. They base their trust on the Bible on the doctrine of inerrancy.

Let me ask you, are the Bible translations that we use everyday inerrant or errant?

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1289

Post by otseng »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 11:00 am If the Bible's inerrant, how come it tells us dead folks can hop up and move about?
What's that got to do with inerrancy?

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Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

Post #1290

Post by brunumb »

christian001 wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:06 am We can trust the Bible because it is inerrant. Some people believe the Bible is full of errors but many of these alleged errors are due to spelling differences, misunderstanding the context, etc. https://www.explainchristianity.com/is- ... of-errors/
If many can be explained, what about the rest then? Are they therefore genuine errancies?
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