If you were Satan....

[Athetotheist]

I remember a TV preacher once asking his broadcast audience, "If you were Satan....." I don't remember the rest of the question, but I seem to remember that he was talking about prophecy and arguing that Satan was up to some diabolical mischief ("If you were Satan, isn't that what you would do?").

A lot of detail in Christian scripture about what is to happen before Jesus returns is tied to the activity of "Satan". The appearance of the "antichrist", in particular, is supposed to be part of Satan's last gambit before he goes down to utter defeat.

Since it was asked of me how I would react if I were Satan, I think it's fair for me to answer. I know that "Satan" is supposed to be a being of superhuman intelligence, but I can't help thinking that if such a being actually existed and if I were that being, I could do a lot better.

If I were "Satan", I would scrap the antichrist plan. If it's all laid out in the Bible, then everyone knows what to expect and you've lost the element of surprise. With that one simple deviation from the prophetic scenario, the whole thing would be gummed up. No antichrist, no mark of the beast, no abomination of desolation, no anything I was supposed to do as Satan to set the stage for the return of Jesus. And without those prophetic components in place, Jesus couldn't return to fulfill prophecy. And how could anyone stop me? I wouldn't be taking some action which could be prevented; I would be defeating prophecy by not taking action.

So let me pass the preacher's question on to you. If you were "Satan", what would you do----or not do----to thwart prophecy?

[William]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #279]

If the prophecy isn't precise and unambiguous, how can a true interpretation of it be established?

Exactly. How can such be thwarted?

Are you conceding that the prophecy is of no value?

Since I never argued that it did have any value, no.

Are you conceding that such prophecy cannot be thwarted?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #280

But even then your "Everyone" is nonsense. What about the blind, those who sleep it over . . .

It isn't my "everyone"; you'd have to take that up with the author. That is the analogy used for the second coming, so none of your candidates fit the bill. The text doesn't say, "For as some guy you read about on Wikipedia says he's Jesus come again, so shall be the coming of the Son of Man".

With Jehovahs Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists, Jesus had some second comings going already, but did not even show up as a person.

As I indicated, a nice unfalsifiable interpretation of prophecy is handy when nothing happens to actually fulfill prophecy.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to William in post #281

If the prophecy isn't precise and unambiguous, how can a true interpretation of it be established?

Exactly. How can such be thwarted?

Things are prophesied to happen. If they don't happen, the prophecies aren't fulfilled.

Since I never argued that it did have any value, no.

Then what are you arguing, and why?

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to The Nice Centurion in post #280

But even then your "Everyone" is nonsense. What about the blind, those who sleep it over . . .

It isn't my "everyone"; you'd have to take that up with the author. That is the analogy used for the second coming, so none of your candidates fit the bill. The text doesn't say, "For as some guy you read about on Wikipedia says he's Jesus come again, so shall be the coming of the Son of Man".

This is the point where greek-geeks could start to argue what "everyone" means in the original greek.
But no matter,. I didnt critzice you or the bible text, I was impiciting that 'everyone" feels rather here like used as a manner of Speaking.
As today we use "everyone" mostly not literary, but in a manner of speaking.
Example wanted? "EVERYONE READS WIKIPEDIA!"
And you know well that the bible authors had no word for "Wikipedia". They would have to say it as they could!

With Jehovahs Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists, Jesus had some second comings going already, but did not even show up as a person.

As I indicated, a nice unfalsifiable interpretation of prophecy is handy when nothing happens to actually fulfill prophecy.

It isn't my "unfalsifiable nice interpretation"; you'd have to take that up with the churches.

[William]

[Replying to William in post #281

If the prophecy isn't precise and unambiguous, how can a true interpretation of it be established?

Exactly. How can such be thwarted?

Things are prophesied to happen. If they don't happen, the prophecies aren't fulfilled.

Yes - but how does this equate to them being thwarted? Isn't it more practical to simply say that they are not prophesies?

Since I never argued that it did have any value, no.

Then what are you arguing, and why?

I have been trying to ascertain exactly what the OP is driving at. I am satisfied now, that there is nothing of interest to me, here.

My own thoughts on the subject were stated viewtopic.php?p=1085305#p1085305
which is also connected to my post in a similar thread.
viewtopic.php?p=1083062#p1083062

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to William in post #285

Yes - but how does this equate to them being thwarted? Isn't it more practical to simply say that they are not prophesies?

The book says they're prophecies.

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. (Rev. 1:1)

[The Nice Centurion]

I remember a TV preacher once asking his broadcast audience, "If you were Satan....." I don't remember the rest of the question, but I seem to remember that he was talking about prophecy and arguing that Satan was up to some diabolical mischief ("If you were Satan, isn't that what you would do?").

A lot of detail in Christian scripture about what is to happen before Jesus returns is tied to the activity of "Satan". The appearance of the "antichrist", in particular, is supposed to be part of Satan's last gambit before he goes down to utter defeat.

Since it was asked of me how I would react if I were Satan, I think it's fair for me to answer. I know that "Satan" is supposed to be a being of superhuman intelligence, but I can't help thinking that if such a being actually existed and if I were that being, I could do a lot better.

If I were "Satan", I would scrap the antichrist plan. If it's all laid out in the Bible, then everyone knows what to expect and you've lost the element of surprise. With that one simple deviation from the prophetic scenario, the whole thing would be gummed up. No antichrist, no mark of the beast, no abomination of desolation, no anything I was supposed to do as Satan to set the stage for the return of Jesus. And without those prophetic components in place, Jesus couldn't return to fulfill prophecy. And how could anyone stop me? I wouldn't be taking some action which could be prevented; I would be defeating prophecy by not taking action.

So let me pass the preacher's question on to you. If you were "Satan", what would you do----or not do----to thwart prophecy?

Clarification Request:

Please lay out before us how you interpret endtime scripture to happen. At last im short words.

Hint 1: The Left Behind Series uses the most voluminous endtimes (to sell more books.

Hint 2: Heres a thread that might very much help you!
Scroll down.
viewtopic.php?t=36585

We will than here just assume that your interpretation is correct.
Then we will ,for the sake of debate, just assume that Satan interprets/knows it also correctly and that he is able and willimg to thwart prophecy by inactivity, cause he thinks like you that this will help him.

Pease lay out before us what is to happen then ?

[Athetotheist]

I remember a TV preacher once asking his broadcast audience, "If you were Satan....." I don't remember the rest of the question, but I seem to remember that he was talking about prophecy and arguing that Satan was up to some diabolical mischief ("If you were Satan, isn't that what you would do?").

A lot of detail in Christian scripture about what is to happen before Jesus returns is tied to the activity of "Satan". The appearance of the "antichrist", in particular, is supposed to be part of Satan's last gambit before he goes down to utter defeat.

Since it was asked of me how I would react if I were Satan, I think it's fair for me to answer. I know that "Satan" is supposed to be a being of superhuman intelligence, but I can't help thinking that if such a being actually existed and if I were that being, I could do a lot better.

If I were "Satan", I would scrap the antichrist plan. If it's all laid out in the Bible, then everyone knows what to expect and you've lost the element of surprise. With that one simple deviation from the prophetic scenario, the whole thing would be gummed up. No antichrist, no mark of the beast, no abomination of desolation, no anything I was supposed to do as Satan to set the stage for the return of Jesus. And without those prophetic components in place, Jesus couldn't return to fulfill prophecy. And how could anyone stop me? I wouldn't be taking some action which could be prevented; I would be defeating prophecy by not taking action.

So let me pass the preacher's question on to you. If you were "Satan", what would you do----or not do----to thwart prophecy?

Clarification Request:

Please lay out before us how you interpret endtime scripture to happen. At last im short words.

Hint 1: The Left Behind Series uses the most voluminous endtimes (to sell more books.

Hint 2: Heres a thread that might very much help you!
Scroll down.
viewtopic.php?t=36585

We will than here just assume that your interpretation is correct.
Then we will ,for the sake of debate, just assume that Satan interprets/knows it also correctly and that he is able and willimg to thwart prophecy by inactivity, cause he thinks like you that this will help him.

Pease lay out before us what is to happen then ?

Just start reading Revelation from around chapter 13 on and everywhere the text specifies some move made by the powers of evil, just think "Okay, that doesn't happen." What happens instead doesn't matter, since it won't be what's prophesied. Not even debating about the "location" of Jesus affects that.

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #288]
In your theory it is Satan who tries to thwart prophecy by inactivity.

So it has to matter to him what happens then.

It is not up to you to decide what doesnt matter.

Hey, I get the impression that such a scenario would not help Satan, it would help you!
It would help you to propagate your anti-biblical worldview.

If I am wrong you have to be able to eyplain how your scenario helps Satan.

[The Nice Centurion]

If I were "Satan", I would scrap the antichrist plan. If it's all laid out in the Bible, then everyone knows what to expect and you've lost the element of surprise.

So let me pass the preacher's question on to you. If you were "Satan", what would you do----or not do----to thwart prophecy?

I would know that I do not need to thwart all prophecy.
Thwarting the part where I lose armageddon would do.

I would know that "All prophecy must be fullfilled or all christianity is wrong." is a false dichotomy.
I would know that especially, because as Satan I would live in a biblical context.

I am sure that Satan is aware of more details of all kinds, and so his action or inactions would be according to his greater wisdom.

Athotheist, before I go on; is "god" in your scenario supposed to be omnipotent, so that nothing Satan thinks or does escapes him?

I have to know that. It would be the first hurdle.