Mythological Scripture accepted as History

[The Nice Centurion]

A post in this thread made me think:
viewtopic.php?t=25006

Note that there is a difference between discussion of religion and discussion of history (though either can contain some reference to the other).

Few, if any, scholars or theologians regard the bible as a historical document. However, uninformed or minimally informed believers often regard it as historical.

The bible was indeed seen as History by western culture for longer than most people know.
A remarkable example here is the english empyre.
The empyres absolute thrust in biblical historicity sustained its might to swallow other cultures.
Officially all english scholars and scientist believed the whole bible to be history until Darwins works came out.
Then slowly thrust in the bible began to lose its attractivity.
(No wonder christians tend to despise him so!)

Before Darwin young earth creationism reigned supreme.
Though flat earth was the first thing christians had to officially let go a long time before Darwin.
(Therefore flat earth is the first biblical fact christians want to distance themselves from until today!)

Remarkable is the Paradox that scientific minds and studied Scholars for so long accepted the bible without question.

A hundred years ago from now european history schoolbooks still presented Jedus godliness and resurrection as historical fact.

What are the resons for above Paradox?

What other Cultures do and did take for how long scriptural evidence as history?
(I am sure that for example non-secular mohammedan states schoolbooks still present mohammeds phropheteness and quranic historicalicity as proven facts. I am also sure that Brigham Young University does the same with Mormon Phophets propheteness and BoM historical accuracy.)

What about ancient greece for example? Were Ilias and Odyssee or Tales of the greek gods interacting with humans taken as historical fact ?

Arguments from the bible are until today so common that this verx forum had to set a rule concerning them.

But for christians Arguments from the bible remain good weapons of course for apologetics.

Also christians do understandably have to fight for the historicity of Jesus resurrection, at the very least!

Most of christianitx had to let go good things like:
Flat earth
Geocentricism
Young earth

And strong under fire is the historicity of OT heroes like Moses as well as important OT happenings like Exodus which is essentially disproven.

How long can a religion outlive the dwindling historicity of its scripture?

[TRANSPONDER]

I think because it looks convincing. It's meant to be. It's not always easy to tell. Elements of myth are woven into history. Real people are mentioned. Buddha was always accepted as a real person, but I have my doubts about whether he even existed. Muhammad may turn out to be mythical (I suspect a lot of the story is) but in fact I do think he was a real person.

Arthur is almost totally mythological, but there seems to be a real person at the bottom. Robin Hood is likely not a real person at all. The Vinland sagas were thought to be mythical as was the Trojan war war, but it looks like they were real as a basis. It really isn't easy to tell.

I don't believe Genesis for a moment. And now I think Exodus is mythical and Moses was not a real person. I'm sure there is a basis to the rest of the OT, but heavily polemicized. And I'm still in two minds about Jesus.

I don't blame it being accepted as history for so long. But I think the time has come for doubt and question, and very serious doubt and question.

[1213]

...
Most of christianitx had to let go good things like:
Flat earth
Geocentricism
Young earth...

That is interesting, when idea of flat earth is not from the Bible. Geocentric and young are interpretations that may be wrong, but geocentric can still be true, because it can't really be proven wrong, same way as young earth can't be proven wrong.

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to 1213 in post #3]
Hard to break it, but even round earthers concede that flat earth cannot be finally proven wrong.

Flat earth is also in the bible, stated by a bakers dozen verses.

I dont want to cut and paste them, for surely you can google/find them in a row in some threads of this forum and also on a bazillion websites.

But like I said; Flat earth was the first biblical fact left behind. Therefore many todays christians sadly deny their own bible when they only can feel safe from flat earth.

And if christian earth isnt flat, why than that many matches in this forum alone?

Search found 3429 matches: flat earth

[Goat]

...
Most of christianitx had to let go good things like:
Flat earth
Geocentricism
Young earth...

That is interesting, when idea of flat earth is not from the Bible. Geocentric and young are interpretations that may be wrong, but geocentric can still be true, because it can't really be proven wrong, same way as young earth can't be proven wrong.

Well, no, it's not from the bible. The bible took it from someplace else. If you look at the words the authors used, they were describing the Babylonian cosmology, where the earth was a bowl that was covered, and held up with 7 pillars (the pillars of the earth). It does describe the earth as 'flat' so to speak.

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to Goat in post #5]
If we say that nothings from the bible, that the bible copied someway from elsewhere with how much bible are we exactly left?

For christians everything thats in the bible is from the bible. And in a reasonable manner of speaking that is correct even for unbelievers.

I know of no christian who thrusts the bible 'cause he likes Gilgamesh and Babylonian religion and cosmology so much.

I had to search not even for a minute for some (not all) flat earth verses.

viewtopic.php?p=1260&hilit=flat+earth#p1260

The bible says the earth is round? I don't think I've read that part of the bible then. Could you quote the verse from the Bible that say that?

Passages that say the earth never moves:

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”

Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”

Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”

Parts that imply a flat earth.

Daniel 4:10-11. “..saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds."

Can only be possible if the earth was flat, as with this passage:

Matthew 4:8 “Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory.”

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"

He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)"

"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)"

2. Job 38:44 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it?

Now, I recommend we get back to the original question for debate.

As for me, it is beyond me how you could not see that the Bible states that homosexuality is wrong. Nothing in the Bible contradicts itself and the verse in Leviticus (i will cease to quote it as you are now familiar with it) clearly states how God feels about homosexuality.

The bible clearly states homosexuality is wrong. But who wrote Leviticus and what his intent was is open to debate. God has not clearly stated how He feels about homosexuality. Some Jewish guy wrote that we shouldn't do it, along with trimming beards, eating shellfish, wearing clothes of two weaves, and all manner of ridiculous actions.

[1213]

...If you look at the words the authors used, they were describing the Babylonian cosmology, where the earth was a bowl that was covered, and held up with 7 pillars (the pillars of the earth). It does describe the earth as 'flat' so to speak.

Sorry, I disagree with that.

And, I think it would be good to notice that in the Bible earth means dry land, not the planet earth.

God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:10

So, there was one continent at the beginning. And under it there was vast cavity filled with water. And in that place there was "pillars of earth" that supported the earth.

To him that stretched out the earth above the waters:"
Psalms 136:6

When the flood came, it was happened so that the original continent was broken and sunk. This doesn't mean the planet is flat. But, many may have misunderstood this, when they don't know much, like maybe the Babylonians when they apparently copied this information from Jews.

[1213]

...
I dont want to cut and paste them, for surely you can google/find them in a row in some threads of this forum and also on a bazillion websites.
...

There is no scripture in the Bible that says earth is flat. If you disagree, please show one (one is enough in this case, no need to sent "them all").

[The Nice Centurion]

[Replying to 1213 in post #8]
You are resembling an apologetic mormon here.
Mormons get that much various critic, that they devised a way to thwart the "shotgun argument" (that is if onethrows a bakers dozen critic points at a mormon apologetic.
A mormon is then to say: OK which ones,or which two of that bother you most?

I dont think one flat earth verse is enough here. How can you be so dismissing?

Yesterday I came across a pro flat earth book that voved on cover to include all 240 flat earth verses.

[amortalman]

[Replying to Goat in post #5]

Passages that say the earth never moves:

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”

Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”

Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”

Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”

To these writers, the earth only appears to be immovable. It would be many centuries before Copernicus correctly explains what actually is.

Parts that imply a flat earth.

Daniel 4:10-11. “..saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds."

Can only be possible if the earth was flat, as with this passage:

Matthew 4:8 “Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory.”

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"

He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)"

"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:4)"

2. Job 38:44 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it?

These verses in no way imply that the earth is flat. With the possible exception of Matt. 4:8 these passages use figures of speech that are not intended to be taken literally. Matt. 4:8 describes a miraculous one-of-a-kind circumstance that certainly isn't intended to imply that the earth is flat.