Rare Earth

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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otseng
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Rare Earth

Post #1

Post by otseng »

Imagine there's no spacemen except the ones we launch
No alien rock n' rollers to listen to Sagan's hunch
Imagine we're all stuck here and must confront ourselves

.. uh oh!

Imagine now that Star Trek is just a TV show
No cosmos full of life forms just earthlings here below
Imagine there's no 'contact' to make 'cause no one's there

... uh oh!

You may say I'm a realist but I'm not the only one
Who knows there's zero data from SETI - or anyone!
Imagine your dream's over no Yoda to soothe you
And your only choices left then boil down to two
Imagine you're unique here and must opt for love or hate

... uh oh!

You may say I'm religious but I'm not the only one to say if you seek communion
it's the heart that must be won!
From the Rare Earth Song

In the book Rare Earth, the authors make two main points:
- Microbial life is common in planetary systems.
- Advanced life (animals) is rare in the Universe.

The arguments they give can be found at wikipedia.

But, in the book, they don't really explore the implications of their hypothesis.

So, what I'd like to ask is:

What are the implications if earth is the only planet with advanced life on it?

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Galphanore
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Post #41

Post by Galphanore »

In Life Everywhere: the Maverick Science of Astrobiology by David Darling, NASA Ames astrobiologist Chris McKay explains why: "We have only one example of life, and the assessment of the probability for the development of life is uncertain at best." Darling adds that "What matters is not whether there's anything unusual about the Earth--there's going to be something idiosyncratic about every planet in space. What matters is whether any of Earth's [unique] circumstances are not only unusual, but also essential for complex life. So far we've seen nothing to suggest that there is" (op. cit., p. 103).
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otseng
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Post #42

Post by otseng »

Galphanore wrote:"We have only one example of life, and the assessment of the probability for the development of life is uncertain at best."
True, we can only study earth. But, we can study earth and see what should universally apply. We can probably safely assume that the laws of chemistry, physics, and mathematics apply to the rest of the universe. And based on what we observe on earth, we can make some reasonable assumptions of what is required for other life to arise. And this is what the field of astrobiology explores. And since it is a relatively young field, in time we'll become more certain of the probability of life.

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Post #43

Post by Galphanore »

otseng wrote:
Galphanore wrote:"We have only one example of life, and the assessment of the probability for the development of life is uncertain at best."
True, we can only study earth. But, we can study earth and see what should universally apply. We can probably safely assume that the laws of chemistry, physics, and mathematics apply to the rest of the universe. And based on what we observe on earth, we can make some reasonable assumptions of what is required for other life to arise. And this is what the field of astrobiology explores. And since it is a relatively young field, in time we'll become more certain of the probability of life.
Correct, but there are still far too many unknowns to make a claim like the Rare Earth Hypothesis reasonable, yet.
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Post #44

Post by otseng »

Galphanore wrote:Correct, but there are still far too many unknowns to make a claim like the Rare Earth Hypothesis reasonable, yet.
Slight correction. I think the hypothesis is reasonable. That is, they have evidence and arguments to support their position. But, I would say that nothing is conclusive yet.

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Post #45

Post by Galphanore »

otseng wrote:
Galphanore wrote:Correct, but there are still far too many unknowns to make a claim like the Rare Earth Hypothesis reasonable, yet.
Slight correction. I think the hypothesis is reasonable. That is, they have evidence and arguments to support their position. But, I would say that nothing is conclusive yet.
And you're free to make that distinction, I just generally try to avoid leaps of faith in my science.
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Re: Rare Earth

Post #46

Post by Bugmaster »

Well, by skimming the Wikipedia article, I can detect at least two problems with the Rare Earth equation:

1). They list N* as the number of stars in our own galaxy. That's nice, but, as it turns out, if you point the Hubble at an unremarkably dark patch of sky, you'll find hundreds of galaxies there. Why limit the equation to the Milky Way ?

2). The equation doesn't estimate the probability of the existence of complex life; it estimates the probability of the existence of life that is exactly like ours. Obviously, that would be very small, but so what ? On other planets, life could evolve in a different way than it did on Earth, but it'd still be life. In fact, we have some really weird life on our own world, like those sulphurous bacteria in deep sea vents, or the recently discovered microbes that live on radioactivity. Why can't there be a whole planet full of those things somewhere (just to name one example) ?

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Re: Rare Earth

Post #47

Post by otseng »

Bugmaster wrote:1). They list N* as the number of stars in our own galaxy. That's nice, but, as it turns out, if you point the Hubble at an unremarkably dark patch of sky, you'll find hundreds of galaxies there. Why limit the equation to the Milky Way ?
It's because they base their equation off the Drake equation.

I think for calculating the rough odds for the entire universe, we can just multiply it by the number of galaxies, which seems to be 125 billion right now.
2). The equation doesn't estimate the probability of the existence of complex life; it estimates the probability of the existence of life that is exactly like ours. Obviously, that would be very small, but so what?
I think that is sort of true. It doesn't have to be exact lifeforms that sorta look like us and speak English (like almost all the science fiction movies). However, their hypothesis doesn't limit life to be just like ours. Nothing in their arguments limit how lifeforms should ultimately be like.
In fact, we have some really weird life on our own world, like those sulphurous bacteria in deep sea vents, or the recently discovered microbes that live on radioactivity. Why can't there be a whole planet full of those things somewhere (just to name one example) ?
In fact, the Rare Earth authors believe this to be the case.

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Post #48

Post by olivergringold »

As requested, I'll place my arguments for our non-uniqueness here. In summary, regarding our status in the universe, we are not alone.

If we were, it would be staggeringly improbable. Based on vibrations in distant starts we know that within our general vicinity there are several stars with large planets in their orbit. While the vibrations caused by planets of our size are too small to detect, it's not too great a logical leap to imagine that existence of other planets in general would indicate the existence of other planets similar to our own. Given the size and scope of the universe, it has even been posited that there is an exact replica of you a mere 10^30 kilometers away, based solely on the probability of your being in relation to the size of the universe.

If you were to calculate all the variables necessary for intelligent life to arise, and then apply the laws of probability to the number of occurrences one would observe within a given space, you would find that the Universe is more than large enough to accommodate a vast multitude of locations that could harbor intelligent life. The vague estimates we have indicate that anywhere from 1,000,000 to 1,000,000,000 intelligent civilizations are lying around us, hidden amongst the cascades of stars that you appear too zealous to fully appreciate for all their magnificence. I suggest heading over to Google Video and looking up "Powers of Ten" and "Cosmic Voyage." The audio on the latter is a bit out of sync but they're both marvelous to watch nonetheless.
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Post #49

Post by otseng »

olivergringold wrote:In summary, regarding our status in the universe, we are not alone.
That's a pretty strong statement. Do you have any empirical evidence that we are not alone?
Based on vibrations in distant starts we know that within our general vicinity there are several stars with large planets in their orbit. While the vibrations caused by planets of our size are too small to detect, it's not too great a logical leap to imagine that existence of other planets in general would indicate the existence of other planets similar to our own.
Actually, it would be quite a leap. Actually, several large leaps. Yes, we can detect Jupiter-size planets in other solar systems, but we have not detected any Earth-sized planets in other solar systems. That doesn't mean they might not be out there, but from current observations, we have no evidence of them.

Also, just because there might be a planet the size of ours, it doesn't mean it will have the same characteristics as ours. Size is only one factor. There are several other factors in the Drake equation that also needs to be considered.

Image

Where:

N* is the number of stars in the Milky Way. This number is not well-estimated, because the Milky Way's mass is not well estimated. Moreover, there is little information about the number of very small stars. N* is at least 100 billion, and may be as high as 500 billion, if there are many low visibility stars.

ne is the average number of planets in a star's habitable zone. This zone is fairly narrow, because constrained by the requirement that the average planetary temperature be consistent with water remaining liquid throughout the time required for complex life to evolve. Thus ne = 1 is a likely upper bound.

fg is the fraction of stars in the galactic habitable zone. 0.1 at most.

fp is the fraction of stars in the Milky Way with planets.

fpm is the fraction of planets that are rocky ("metallic") rather than gaseous.

fi is the fraction of habitable planets where microbial life arises. W&B believe this fraction is unlikely to be small.

fc is the fraction of planets where complex life evolves. For 80% of the time since microbial life first appeared on the Earth, there was only bacterial life. Hence W&B argue that this fraction may be very small. Moreover, the Cambrian Explosion, when complex life really got off the ground, may have been triggered by extraordinary climatic and geological events.

fl is the fraction of the total lifespan of a planet during which complex life is present. This fraction cannot be high because complex life takes so long to evolve. Complex life cannot endure indefinitely, because the energy put out by the sort of star that allows complex life to emerge gradually rises, and the central star eventually becomes a red giant, engulfing all planets in the planetary habitable zone. Also, given enough time, a catastrophic extinction of all complex life becomes ever more likely.

fm is the fraction of habitable planets with a large moon. If the giant impact theory of the Moon's origin is correct, this fraction is small.

fj is the fraction of planetary systems with large Jovian planets. This fraction could be large.

fme is the fraction of planets with a sufficiently low number of extinction events. W&B argue that the low number of such events the Earth has experienced since the Cambrian explosion may be unusual, in which case this fraction would be small. Such a low number again requires a very stable planetary system, with outer planets having nearly circular orbits, no gravitational perturbations from passing stars, and no nearby supernovas, quasars, or gamma ray bursts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis

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Post #50

Post by otseng »

olivergringold wrote:The vague estimates we have indicate that anywhere from 1,000,000 to 1,000,000,000 intelligent civilizations are lying around us, hidden amongst the cascades of stars that you appear too zealous to fully appreciate for all their magnificence.
Too zealous to fully appreciate for all their magnificence? :confused2:

Just one question, if so many intelligent civilizations exist, why have we not been able to detect even one of them?

(Also, could you resize the graphic in your signature to about half its current size? The large size makes the page too wide. Thanks.)

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