What is ' consciousness ' ?

[Thomas123]

This word appears to be at the centre of many discussions on this forum. It also appears to mean different things to different people and, therein lies the root of our miscommunication. What range and definement do you attribute to, ' consciousness ' ?

Is there an external consciousness in the world?. Can I tune into a shared consciousness. I am listening to Prime Minister's Question Time, ....is Boris tuned into a universal human consciousness as he delivers his address. Is his brain working ,simultaneously and in tandem with my own consciousness and with that of others?

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to Thomas123 in post #1]

So what is the difference between animal consciousness and human consciousness?

[Tcg]

[Replying to Thomas123 in post #1]

So what is the difference between animal consciousness and human consciousness?

Given that humans are animals, this is like asking what's the difference between pizza and pizza.


Tcg

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to Tcg in post #102]

Given that humans are animals, this is like asking what's the difference between pizza and pizza.

So you are saying that a Gorilla can contemplate his place in the universe, compose something like Handel's Messiah or calculate where Mars will be in its orbit in the future. Can a giraffe appreciate the beauty of a sunset on an African plane? Can animals write novels?

It is absurd to believe that animals can think, feel and create like humans can. Give a monkey a pencil and see if it can even make stick figures.

Would animals care if Hitler killed 6,000,000 million Jews?
Do animals care if Stalin killed 30 million people?

Why do men care about the death of millions when animals do not?

It is absurd to believe that the consciousness of humans and the consciousness of animals are the same.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to Thomas123 in post #1]

So what is the difference between animal consciousness and human consciousness?

So, broadly speaking, I should say it is self awareness. The ability to be aware of one's own consciousness Thus do some escape the boundaries of determinism and achieve free will.

Best wishes, 2RM

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to EarthScienceguy in post #103]

It is absurd to believe that animals can think, feel and create like humans can. Give a monkey a pencil and see if it can even make stick figures.

Would animals care if Hitler killed 6,000,000 million Jews?
Do animals care if Stalin killed 30 million people?

Who is arguing otherwise? You're referring to a degree of intelligence and brain capability, not consciousness itself. Humans are what they are because of a few specific evolutionary developments, such as bipedialism, opposing thumbs, and of course a highly developed and complex brain (among other things). The human brain (within the genus Homo) developed over several million years and we can see the progress in the fossil record as well as in the archeological evidence left behind. The earliest members of the genus Homo did not have nearly the levels of intelligence, empathy etc. as modern humans, but that does not remove us from being animals just like they were, taxonomically.

There are colloquial uses of the word animal such as "they treated us like animals", but that is a different use of the word. Humans are animals that happen to walk on two feet and have a more advanced brain than anything else alive today. But as Dawrin said ... "man still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin."

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to DrNoGods in post #105]

Who is arguing otherwise? You're referring to a degree of intelligence and brain capability, not consciousness itself.

No, I am arguing consciousness itself.

In your above statement, you admit that there is a difference between humans and animals. I am the difference is the difference in consciousness. Animals respond to stimuli they do not think about the consequences of their actions to that stimuli.

[William]

[Replying to DrNoGods in post #105]

Who is arguing otherwise? You're referring to a degree of intelligence and brain capability, not consciousness itself.

Animals respond to stimuli they do not think about the consequences of their actions to that stimuli.

That is untrue. Action and consequence is what keeps animals alive - animals may not think the way humans do re their actions - they might not think their actions as being 'actions' but neither do they simply run on some type of automation - unaware that they exist and are participating in activity.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to EarthScienceguy in post #106]

In your above statement, you admit that there is a difference between humans and animals.

Only as a matter of degree in terms of intelligence. Consciousness is not the same as intelligence. Animals from worms to humans are conscious in terms of having an awareness of their surroundings at some level, and some have secondary emotions:

https://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/ ... y-of-mind/

Anyone who has dogs, cats, horses, and other animals can see that they play around for the fun of it, exhibit sadness and happiness, and many mammals display empathy and will offer and share food, etc. They may not contemplate death or engage in abstract thought like a human, but it is the degree of development of the brain that is responsible for that... not some fundamental difference between "animals" and humans (unless you believe that humans were specially created by a god being, rather than developing from apes who evolved a highly complex and capable brain that allows them to conceive of themselves as special creations).

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to DrNoGods in post #105]

Who is arguing otherwise? You're referring to a degree of intelligence and brain capability, not consciousness itself.

No, I am arguing consciousness itself.

In your above statement, you admit that there is a difference between humans and animals. I am the difference is the difference in consciousness. Animals respond to stimuli they do not think about the consequences of their actions to that stimuli.

You've obviously never caught your dog when he's caught up on the couch, when the pretty thing says he ain't sposed to be up there.

Both of mine wag their tails when I come in the room. They hop off the couch at the mere sound of her voice in another room.

[Tcg]

You've obviously never caught your dog when he's caught up on the couch, when the pretty thing says he ain't sposed to be up there.

Both of mine wag their tails when I come in the room. They hop off the couch at the mere sound of her voice in another room.

In addition, elephants visit the bones of their ancestors and grieve their loss. Dolphins introduce themselves with their names. Sea otters use rocks as tools. Crows drop rocks into pitchers to raise the water level so they can drink. The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. Okay that last one may not be a great example... or is it?


Tcg