Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

[William]

Assuming for argument sake that it is possible for the universe to exist without intelligent design...

In what way is atheism still a better position to assume? In what way is atheism more likely to be truer than Deism?

One of the most popular arguments I ever come across for atheism over any type of theism usually goes along the lines of "if I were god, I would want to interact with my creation rather than stay absent like the Deistic god, and since there is no evidence of GOD existing through interaction, atheism is still the preferred position to have, because the deist GOD is absent anyway, so might as well not exist."

So, in what way is atheism more likely truer than Deism?

Or, are the two positions so similar that they are not even in conflict with each other and may as well be the same thing?

After all, a deist idea of GOD in relation to this universe, might as well not exist. Which is precisely the atheist position on the subject of GOD.

Thoughts?

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to William in post #1]

Although that seems to be what popular culture wants you to believe, it's a skewed and incomplete picture of Deism.

From the World Union of Deists website:

"Do Deists believe that God created the creation and the world and then just stepped back from it? Some Deists do and some believe God may intervene in human affairs. For example, when George Washington was faced with either a very risky evacuation of the American troops from Long Island or surrendering them, he chose the more risky evacuation. When questioned about the possibility of having them annihilated he said it was the best he could do and the rest was up to Providence."

If some folks in the World Union of Deists believes that :Some Deists ......... believe God may intervene in human affairs... then they are on their way to becoming Theists, I think. Deists believe in an uninvolved Deity, methinks.

Theism is about involved God/s
Deism is about uninvolved God/s.

Yes?

Deism has no dogmatic beliefs about God/s.

[Tcg]

[Replying to William in post #1]

Although that seems to be what popular culture wants you to believe, it's a skewed and incomplete picture of Deism.

From the World Union of Deists website:

"Do Deists believe that God created the creation and the world and then just stepped back from it? Some Deists do and some believe God may intervene in human affairs. For example, when George Washington was faced with either a very risky evacuation of the American troops from Long Island or surrendering them, he chose the more risky evacuation. When questioned about the possibility of having them annihilated he said it was the best he could do and the rest was up to Providence."

If some folks in the World Union of Deists believes that :Some Deists ......... believe God may intervene in human affairs... then they are on their way to becoming Theists, I think. Deists believe in an uninvolved Deity, methinks.

Theism is about involved God/s
Deism is about uninvolved God/s.

Yes?

Deism has no dogmatic beliefs about God/s.

But it does include a belief in a god. That makes it a version of theism. Perhaps one of the more logical ones in that its god is totally indistinguishable from a god that doesn't exist. A god that does nothing is possible unlike all the other versions of god.


Tcg

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Tcg in post #32
[

But it does include a belief in a god. That makes it a version of theism. Perhaps one of the more logical ones in that its god is totally indistinguishable from a god that doesn't exist. A god that does nothing is possible unlike all the other versions of god.

I haven't denied that it's a version of theism, but its lack of dogma means that it isn't limited to a dogmatic belief that the creator is uninvolved.

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #32
[

But it does include a belief in a god. That makes it a version of theism. Perhaps one of the more logical ones in that its god is totally indistinguishable from a god that doesn't exist. A god that does nothing is possible unlike all the other versions of god.

I haven't denied that it's a version of theism, but its lack of dogma means that it isn't limited to a dogmatic belief that the creator is uninvolved.

The creator? What creator?


Tcg

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Tcg in post #32
[

But it does include a belief in a god. That makes it a version of theism. Perhaps one of the more logical ones in that its god is totally indistinguishable from a god that doesn't exist. A god that does nothing is possible unlike all the other versions of god.

I haven't denied that it's a version of theism, but its lack of dogma means that it isn't limited to a dogmatic belief that the creator is uninvolved.

The creator? What creator?

Is that supposed to be a witty parry? "Creator" is a common Deist expression.

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #32
[

But it does include a belief in a god. That makes it a version of theism. Perhaps one of the more logical ones in that its god is totally indistinguishable from a god that doesn't exist. A god that does nothing is possible unlike all the other versions of god.

I haven't denied that it's a version of theism, but its lack of dogma means that it isn't limited to a dogmatic belief that the creator is uninvolved.

The creator? What creator?

Is that supposed to be a witty parry? "Creator" is a common Deist expression.

That doesn't address my question. I asked you what creator you are referring to.


Tcg

[Miles]

[Replying to Tcg in post #32
[

But it does include a belief in a god. That makes it a version of theism. Perhaps one of the more logical ones in that its god is totally indistinguishable from a god that doesn't exist. A god that does nothing is possible unlike all the other versions of god.

I haven't denied that it's a version of theism, but its lack of dogma means that it isn't limited to a dogmatic belief that the creator is uninvolved.

...........................


.

[oldbadger]

Deism has no dogmatic beliefs about God/s.

I think it does............. if any Deist believes in an involved or aware Deity then they've just left Deism....for Theism.
The resident Governor in this universe is Mother Nature.

[William]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #38]

The resident Governor in this universe is Mother Nature.

Well at least in our section of the universe...

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #38

if any Deist believes in an involved or aware Deity then they've just left Deism

Wrong. The core tenet of Deism is not that the creator is uninvolved. The core tenet of Deism is that the creator can be discerned by each individual through nature and reason without the aid of special revelation through any individual or group. That's it.

You're falling for a mischaracterization of Deism often employed by the uninformed.